Question on found horse issue

[nightrider]

Boy
Guess I need to work on how to quote and reply.
Sorry
George

[fantasykiger]

sbutter... I think you misunderstood the definition of "found" in the Kiger world found horses have never run wild on the Kiger or Riddle HMAs. I know it is confusing but "found" is not short for foundation.

no worries George, I don't even know how to work that quote button.

[sbutter]

sbutter... I think you misunderstood the definition of "found" in the Kiger world found horses have never run wild on the Kiger or Riddle HMAs. I know it is confusing but "found" is not short for foundation.

LOL...when I first started getting into kigers, that was one of the first mistakes I made and it made it very confusing. I guess a better way to rephrase my question is...Are there any wild kigers out in the two herds that are still in question? Or is everything out there "safe" to adopt without any worries of the whole "found" blood issue? Are the "found" horses only an issue with the ones we have in captivity? Hopefully that clears it up a little...

[fantasykiger]

In my opinion YES, it is safe to adopt a Kiger Mustang from the wild Kiger or Riddle HMA and it is just that a Kiger Mustang tried and true. You will find some may be ruff around the edges (void of perfect conformation) at this point and not to everyone's liking. Others may just be the diamond in the ruff you been searching for, but I honestly do not think any one is going to deny that you just adopted a Kiger Mustang. ;D

Foundblood is only a captive bred issue, you are correct in that assumption.

[Michelle Clarke]

George, you have some great points and while I don't belive ANOTHER registry is the whole answer, I do not forsee registries banding together for the greater good (excluding CKMR and AKHR, hope I got the letters right!).

I really really really need to get together with Kelly, because we are working on a competetion here called "Performance Horse Challenge"...

We have also been toying with the idea of a Kiger Performance/Sport Horse Organization for a few years now. While it will not compete with any registries per se, horses will have to be registered with the organization to have the benefits.

[canadiankigers]

Michelle:

Yes you got them right. I am looking forward to getting together with you soon as I really need to get things rolling if we are to make this happen in 2009.

George, another registry is only going to cause more confusion. We already have 5 registries which in any serious horse circle has been quit the "little chuckle". It just shows how fragmented the Kiger world is right now.

While the AKHR and the CKMR have been working in tandum, we still maintain our individual entities. It just worked out that we both have similar goals and objectives for this breed. I do not see why the other registries could not consider a similar aproach. I think something like this could be a first step towards a cooperative venture in the Kiger world.

JMHO:
Kelly

[karismakigers]

Jan 18, 2009 23:01:21 GMT -5 @barbhorses said:

ummmm Jillian, the Sulphurs HAVE old Spanish blood in them! mtDNA is icing on the cake! Not solid proof of Spanish heritage. The Sulphurs place in the Iberian breed group based on Spanish markers. They closely relate to the Puerto Rican Paso Fino and the Chilean Criollo. Both breeds praised for their historical "purity".

Jeeze, Kimberlee, get off your high horse. I never said Sulphurs don't have old Spanish blood. I said that the appearance of the Est-G in another horse breed eliminates the uniqueness of this mutation that was previously only found in Sulphur horses, but DOES give credence to the theory of old Spanish blood as the other breed is considered old Spanish blood. I'm giving you a bone.....consider it a gift.

Give it a rest. I don't think any of the horses are superior to the other. I don't go around with the my horse is better than yours attitude. Both Kigers and Sulphurs have supporting evidence to claim that they are spanish blood. And both have supporting evidence to claim that they are mixed.

Jillian

[nightrider]

My point is that there are too many registries.
We as Kiger owners / breeders need to put aside our differences and work for the Kiger horse.
Work for the Kiger horses as originally founded.
I do understand what has happened in the past,with the found horse issue and personality conflicts in the KMA, "they can't be separated ".
If not for the personality conflicts this issue would have been worked out for the Kiger Breed, not the $$ aspect and the I want it my way attitude.
I am NOT bashing the KMA. I am a KMA member and ( knowing the past )I like what I see with
the the positive attitude of the board and members that I have talked with.
Let's learn from history so it doesn't happen again and move forward with this special breed.

Kelly
I checked out the link and got to the first page but nothing more ?

George

[Michelle Clarke]

I, myself, would LOVE to get with a registry and move forward with something...! Aside from the CKMR, I don't see a registry that has their stuff together, that is moving forward - at least for me.

Here are my issues and what I need in a registry.

I need a registry with a Breed Standard that will not hold common known faults, with room for the breed to improve and have some semblance of a Spanish type horse.

I need a registry that will not disallow the grey; as this was a color, though unbeknownst at the time, that was directly picked and added to the herds. Even if the registry does not give them breeding rights, they still need a place to be now.

I need a registry that will hold a standard to registry, not just allow anything rounded up or captured to be admitted.

I need a registry that will, in a timely manner, answer my inquiries and register my horses.

I need a registry that is committed to the education of breeders, competetors, owners and prospective buyers.

I need a registry that will promote the Kiger in a professional, positive light; at least nationwide.

Promote, promote, promote.

[sbutter]

I agree with everything you just said! I have been looking at registries and have had a mental note of everything you just pointed out. Great minds think alike

[nightrider]

Michelle
I totally agree with most of your points.
This is exactly what needs to happen, put your issues down in black and white.
In fact there should be a thread started just for this.
I can’t speak for the KMA as a registry, but there are other members that use this board , our president and other board members included.
With open honest communication, give and take, and perhaps out of the box ideas and thinking, there is no reason in the world that a bigger better registry can’t emerge.
People lets give this a try for our Kigers.
The one word in your list really stood out for me . PROFESSIONALISM

Do you want to see a picture of 4 of the stallions that Ron removed from Kiger/Riddle HMA in 1988 that he didn’t feel fit in with the Kigers ?
We feel that one is the sire of one of our old mares.
George

[fantasykiger]

"I need a registry that will hold a standard to registry, not just allow anything rounded up or captured to be admitted."

I don't agree with this one only because if you have and issue with the standard of horses from the wild, then someone needs to take it up with the BLM in charge of the Kiger Mustang herds. Evolution is out of our hands, the horses will develope in their own direction out in the wild it makes them no less Kiger Mustangs. JMO

If you want to be an exclusive registration that registers only one standard or type of Kiger Mustang then by all means that is OK, but if your desire is to be "the one" their needs to be a place for future generations of adopted Kiger Mustangs.

[sbutter]

"I need a registry that will hold a standard to registry, not just allow anything rounded up or captured to be admitted."

I don't agree with this one only because if you have and issue with the standard of horses from the wild, then someone needs to take it up with the BLM in charge of the Kiger Mustang herds. Evolution is out of our hands, the horses will develope in their own direction out in the wild it makes them no less Kiger Mustangs. JMO

If you want to be an exclusive registration that registers only one standard or type of Kiger Mustang then by all means that is OK, but if your desire is to be "the one" their needs to be a place for future generations of adopted Kiger Mustangs.

I guess the reason why I agreed with this is because of what I heard about the quality of horses in the last adoption. One of the whole point of kigers was the "spanish type" horse,right? If we pressured BLM to make sure they stick to that point, would they actually do it? If the registries put a higher standard for kigers, wouldn't that pressure the BLM to make sure they are going for the spanish horse type? But,...then again what are kigers? If they are just a horse from a certain place, then anything off of those two HMAs are a beautiful expression of that breed. On the whole though, I think we should have a scoring system and some kind of "label" from the evaluation of kigers, so it is easy to look on paper and identify what kigers are the best and worst of the breed. I do want every kiger to be able to be registered as a kiger off of those two HMAs (if they really are kigers and haven't been crossed with anything), but at the same time, I don't know exactly how to pressure the BLM into making sure they are encouraging spanish traits in the two HMAs.

[canadiankigers]

Michelle:

Thank you for the compliment. I have worked hard to design the CKMR for both the breed and it’s members. It’s not perfect by a long shot but hey, we are trying.

George,
Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will see the following link: www.wildhorserun.com/all_breed_challenge.htm

sbutter,
I also did not like what I saw in the last adoption. I have no idea why there was so much white or the differences in type and conformation but I do know that I did not care for it. It’s just my personal opinion. I don’t think we will be able to pressure the BLM to do anything but if their ability to sell the Kigers from Riddle and Kiger HMA’s lost their appeal then perhaps they may be more inclined to reassess what they are doing with them. Let’s face it, a lot of the Mustangs coming off of the other HMA’s do not have the popularity that the Kigers do.
The idea of an evaluation is good but that brings up another “can of worms” so to speak. I mean who is qualified to decide if someone’s Kiger is good enough to meet breeding standards or be registered as non breeding. What about geographical obstacles? Let’s say the registry is located in Montana and I am in Florida. Will I have to pay to fly an inspector out to me, will I have to wait for an annual inspection in my area (if there is one) or will I have to pay to transport my horse to the nearest inspection station? I don’t like the idea of pictures as you can easily present the horse in question in the wrong light so to speak. It’s the old saying....”Is that a bad picture of a good horse or a good picture of a bad horse? I do agree that a standard is needed but inspections are not “my” answer to this specific situation.
JMHO,
Kelly

[nightrider]

This photo was taken in the stud pen in 1988. The gray on the right was from the Kiger HMA.
I can not say this was the start of the gray purge. I don't know the fate of this stallion, but at age 17 I don't think he was adopted out.