Retraining Dollie

[Michelle Clarke]

You need to keep working on it until she gets the point and makes a change. If you keep going back to what she is good at, she is setting the rules. You only go back to what she is good at when she tries at what you are asking or else there is no incentive to learn to try. Like I said, I expect this to take well over an hour and her to be soaking wet the first time you get done what you really need to. The only way you will progress and make the next day better is if you break through her resistance and get her to make a change.

[gotkiger]

Awesome got it. I did the video before I read your response. The video is uploading as a start to see if I'm doing it right. Right off the bat I can see that I need to quiet my hand with the rope. I also have a video of Frodo doing this to compare

[gotkiger]

Dollie's Video:

youtu.be/URjv1pc-F-4

So we did not end as this video ends. My battery was about to die so we stopped recording but after the video ended i had her change directions and she mimicked her first stop and turned her hip. So we stopped on a somewhat good note, she still wont walk up to me. I only connected with her once and that was because she shifted her weight and turned her hip in towards me like she was daring me to push her more so she could kick. I got on her for that. You will see she did it a few times but I only got her once. She was not wanting to move forward very well either.


Frodo's Video:

youtu.be/2vM2ptCrn_c


Again these videos were done before I was able to read your response.

[Michelle Clarke]

Thanks for posting those. A few concepts to consider. When working with both of your guys remember you are training - not reinforcing something they already know. You need to give more time, especially to Dollie when you ask her to roll her hindend over and stop. Your timing is great for when she knows what you want: ask...one one thousand, two one thousand...push, ask again. But, when teaching you need to read her body language each step each time. When her feet slow down, her ears move, her eyes are blinking - maybe she even quickly drops her head a few inches - you need to slow down more, give her more space and wait to see if she makes a change.

Being as the roundpen is a little small, slow your feet down and let more space develop between you to see if that brings her in. You are right, your hands and even your feet are quick; breath deeper, slow yourself down and concentrate more on watching her for changes so you know how what you are doing is affecting her reactions or responses. Also, when you are asking her to go, your weight is over the wrong leg - put it over your leg closest to her. Using the other leg makes you also lean forward which is even more of a block - which makes her feel trapped; therefore egging her on to keep going.

Once you ask her to go, walk with her but stop swinging the rope. That is nagging and will teach her to ignore your energy in your body so you will always have to keep driving her instead of asking her to go and then letting it be her responsibility. The same goes for Frodo - you are frustrating him some. Ask them to go, go to neutral body language in your walk and let them make the mistake. How will they ever learn what will not work if you don't let them explore their evasions. This turns into a bigger picture. Pretty soon, they are always testing you because they are convinced that what they want to do will work - let them find out it won't.

Another concept: steady pressure versus rhythmatic pressure. Your goal is to have your horse respond to steady pressure. If you can only get things done through rhythmatic pressure, then your horse will never be soft and responsive. Clicking your tongue, kissing at them, swinging the rope, kicking and pulling on the rein are all rhythmatic pressure.

Always start asking your horse to do something by using steady pressure; if they do not respond - use rhythmatic pressure to follow through. Work on each part of the exercise until you can get it done only using steady pressure. So, asking her to go by picking up your body energy is steady pressure. Then slowly lift your arm with the rope - more steady pressure. Swinging the rope is rhythmatic pressure. You don't want to end there.

Relaxing and walking slowly toward the hindend to get it to yield and stop is steady pressure. Picking up your hand with the rope towards it is steady pressure. Swinging the rope is rhythmatic pressure.

Make sure you go back and watch the video of Emily and Fabio to get some reminders of your energy and positioning.

Good start!! I think this will really help Dollie out and get a good line of communication going between you too. Just think of it as she is having to learn a whole new language - take your time with her and allow her to learn.

[gotkiger]

Thanks. I tend to lead with my inside foot and I could feel how that was wrong but I was trying to focus on her more than me ad that is wrong too.

[gotkiger]

I have been working Dollie as much as I can.

This is primarily just a vent that I thought I would share. Every step has its challenges. After Dollie kicked me she learned not to get her butt near me. She has been doing very good with that in the pasture and when I am leading her. But after one challenge has been addressed, not completely fixed, another will present and this is that new challenge.

Observation of the week:
You know your horse is lazy and wants to stay that way when they run away from you when you have a halter and hide behind a building so you hopefully wont catch them. When they know you cant run so as soon as you get close they take a few quick steps and are across the pasture and out of reach.

Fix for the future (aka today):
Dollie is now going to be living in the round pen so she has no way to evade the work or me.

I know I am dealing with 14 years of practice, mastery and problems... But she has me seriously frustrated right now. After an hour and a half with no results and no light I had to throw in the towel last night for both of our safety. Frodo is so easy to work with. So I know that this is not something genetic like some observers have been saying (not here but in person). Could there be some kind of physical block besides her huge mental one? Could some of this be her way of telling me that something isn't right? I am not stopping and I really want to get this figured out and get through her blocks. Generally I am out from 7-9 at night to work with her. I try to work Frodo in the morning so I have all the time possible at night for Dollie.

I never had this problem with her before, but I wasn't trying to get her back where she belongs either. This is going to be a very, very long road, but one I am happy to take with her and you. I had hoped that in October I would be able to take her to a dressage trainer so that we could take some lessons to get started on the road towards competing in Working Equitation. I am now seeing that it might be another year or two before that is accomplished. I am a little discouraged but not broken. We will get there, even if Frodo gets there first.

[gotkiger]

Of course as soon as you vent about how things aren't coming along you have a break through. To a degree I will say she did what I wanted. The problem is she is so darn smart that she figured out well if I move my hip around she will ease up and stop pushing and I can go back to standing still. Definitely her hip this time and not her shoulder. She was giving both ways every time I asked. Occasionally it took a few times but for the most part she did great. I pushed her shoulder forward and the harder I push the faster she would go, and the softer the slower. As soon as I was even starting to shift my weight and body to her hip, BAM!!!!! around she spun her hip and faced me head on. I moved one way and the hip moved as well. I went around to the other side and the hip moved when I moved. Of course I didn't have my camera as I was expecting the same fight I had last night and the night before but hopefully tomorrow morning before I head out of town I can get a video and upload it. Otherwise I will get it on Monday. From what I could think she did it all right so I gave her a reward of taking me for a ride (yes that is a reward for her). She didn't stop. Just the halter and lead on one side and around and around she trotted figure eights in the round pen to change direction with leg pressure and she just kept going at the same pace. So tonight I go to bed with a huge smile on my face.

[Michelle Clarke]

Good for you! Way to stick with it! I was going to give you a change in the exercise this morning to get her focus back but so happy it is working out. You came back determined yesterday and she felt that change and figured she'd better shape up. Happy Dance!!

[gotkiger]

I did a little work with her this morning before I headed out and she did the exercise well again. To my eyes at least. However she lost a ton of her forward energy. She was so slow. I tried getting after her with the rope but she was just super sluggish. It like she knew I was leaving and was mad at me. She was super cuddly too. I could barely clean the pen without her in my pocket.

[Michelle Clarke]

Okay, her being slow right now is kind of her readjusting her attitude. I know it sound funny but she is reevaluating her place in life and she is not sure now where she stands. You still need to be firm but be understanding. The fact she is being cuddly really shows this and shows she is beginning to accept you as a leader. Don't get all mushy with her yet, you've got aways to go and it will still have its' ups and downs and some knock down drag outs, but this is a good sign!

[gotkiger]

YEAY!!! I am still over the moon that i finally got to her. And it makes perfect sense that she would be re-evaluating herself and our relationship. When she was being cuddly and in my pocket I gave her a pet then pushed her off out of my way so I could get the next pile cleaned before she came back. I did put her back in the pasture before I left since she was doing good and as a precautionary measure for her and Frodo while I am away (no one else around will handle Frodo, and my husband will barely handle Dollie if he has to). But, She goes back into the round pen on Monday.

Total side bar but Do you know of a way to keep Frodo from being able to unpin the panels? he figured out how to unpin the top pin and it wont take long before he gets the bottom figures out as well. They are just normal economy fence panels ... I was thinking of welding, or trying to weld, a horseshoe onto the top so he wouldnt be able to pull the pin out or trying to drill through the end of the pin so I could put another pin through it to stop it from coming back up.

[Michelle Clarke]

Put a chain around the panels up top with a link connector instead of a snap. I do that with all my stud panels. Put it diagonal so they catch the top of one rail and the bottom of it on the next one so they are steady. Had one that figured out how to push and lift the bottom of the panel so it would lean and come up out of the pins. They were 6' panels and weighed 200lbs/each - so not an easy task!

[gotkiger]

Oh wow!!! Persistent little bugger , lol. Thanks that sounds much easier then my idea

[gotkiger]

I did a video of part of dollie working this morning. It is uploading now

[gotkiger]

here is the video. She is starting to test me again by not moving forward and swinging her hip in while I am working her. I let the rope run into her when she does that. I didn't catch that on the video though


youtu.be/C7IbpQky39o