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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 6, 2012 17:01:03 GMT -5
Narration after chores and breedings this morning!!
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 6, 2012 17:59:20 GMT -5
Awesome. Thanks
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 7, 2012 13:32:23 GMT -5
The first lesson in the roundpen is basically go and stop going! The horse, Fabio, is loose and you will see my sister, Emily, pick up her energy and push his shoulder to the left. While the hind end in the motor, the shoulder is the motivator - so this is what is needed to use to send the horse off in a circle. This is more of what is used in riding also, with reins and also by using your body to go, you are really pushing the shoulders (more on that later). If you just create all kinds of energy toward the rear end - all you'll get is horse that spins around and moves his hind end away from you. It is natural, especially while you are in front of the horse, to move the front end.
Energy is created by first taking a deep breath and picking your body up. Next is moving your feet toward the shoulder while your belly button is focused on motivating the energy out onto the circle and around. Key here is "out" and "onto" the circle. You want the horse to put his weight back on the hind legs, turn and move out onto the circle. Not come in on the forehand and cut a wedge out of the circle (thereby moving into your space anyway) to get to the outside of the circle.
Notice how Emily pushes that left eye to go out to the circle. After you lift your energy and walk, if the horse does not move, you lift your right hand easily up in the air and if the horse still does not respond or is slow to respond, swing the rope towards him. If you are walking and swinging and the horse still does not move, you need to let the rope run into that shoulder and mean it. This does not mean to reach out and whack the horse. You are just creating an energy field that the horse needs to pay attention to and give a response to.
You need to worry about a disrespectful horse kicking at you at this point. That is why you start your energy early, walk with purpose, swing like you mean it and let that rope be long so you can reach them from further away. The biggest mistake is slowing your feet down the closer you get to the horse - they've already got you and know you won't follow through.
Once the horse is out and around on the circle, your belly button stays focused on the shoulder or a little behind depending on the position of the horse. A very green horse with the head to the outside, your belly button will be behind the horse and you may be there with Frodo but not Dolly. Doing this will encourage a horse to bend in more at first - just with the nose at least.
Notice Emilys' weight is on her right foot going to the left while she walks with the horse. This is important for encouraging the energy to stay forward. Please remember that a key here is to go with the horse - this is what happens when you ride - match your energy; so this is an important concept for you and the horse to get down before you ride.
Watch when Emily wants Fabio to come down and stop. She turns toward his hind end, puts all her weight on that right foot and slows down. The first time she asks, Fabio ignores her, so Emily immediately changes position, walks faster and lifts the rope to push him. You must push the horse faster than he was going before you asked. Another important key. You don't have to go up into a canter but you need to at least double the trot he had before. This is making what he wants to do (stay on the circle and ignore you) more difficult. Go ahead, stay on the rail but you'll have to speed up. Again, never make the horse feel like they are getting in trouble - you can always ask again.
Notice Emily re-asks for that hindquarter right away - keeping the subject in front of him. Don't let your horse do another three circles and forget what the task was to begin with. He ignores her a second time, so she goes right back into asking for more energy. Another ignore - then she pushes him on. It takes another few times of asking before he makes it. Notice the last time she asks for energy, he picks up the canter without Emily having to lift the rope - so she doesn't.
Emily walks away and gives him a break. Another important concept to use early in training - walk away when you get your point across. Take all the energy and focus off the horse. Let him sit and soak on it for a few. If Fabio were to walk off or get pushy, Emily would ask him to do the exercise again.
Notice here that Fabio is not relaxed. His tail is agitated, he is shaking his head, biting at flies. Do not end the lesson here! This will guarantee you more trouble tomorrow! He needs to be calm, focused and relaxed before ending.
A nice pet, walk to the center of the pen and start again. Emily changes directions. Notice right away his feet are slower and ever though he picks up a canter on his own - it is an evasion. The canter is up and down - not forward. Emily has been working on the canter transition lately, so he is cantering here to be left alone. See how quick he takes the hindquarter when she asks? He has more of an issue going to the right than to the left. Emily stays with the hindquarter until he pivots some on that inside front leg (the right one).
Emily stays to the right because is was so half a$$. She asks him to go, he argues and she swings and lets it run into him. See how she is pushing the shoulder and he keeps bending around her instead of going out? Since he argued about going out, she keeps him on the circle longer before asking for the hindquarter.
Okay, so master this one, both directions. I will get the next video this week, which is changing directions toward the center.
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 7, 2012 15:15:20 GMT -5
Awesome im on it starting this afternoon after the baby's nap. I am certain I will have problems with Rollie with this because when she is in the round pen she just runs if anyone is in there with her and standing in the middle.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 7, 2012 21:39:45 GMT -5
If she is such a nut in the roundpen then you need to let her go, then focus your belly button and energy out way behind her and walk slowly, inviting her to turn in or stop and look at you. Then walk away. Take your time, don't get frustrated and keep your energy way way down. The goal is to get her focus on you.
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 7, 2012 23:59:26 GMT -5
So I did this on a line to have a connection so if she kept going I could bump her and get her attention and she actually did pretty well the only thing is that she would only stop behind me not I front of me. At the very end I got her to go out and trot a few steps then I shut my energy down and she stopped as well
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 8, 2012 6:17:20 GMT -5
The whole point of working at liberty is NOT to have a physical connection and let the horse work out its issues. I would never bump a horse like that and make them make the change. Basically you forced her to make the physical change and addressed none of her mental blockages or her emotional flightiness. Her stopping behind you is an evasion because of a trust issue - which you confirmed by yanking on her face. Also, if she is stopping behind you then you are not walking with her as you should, nor pushing the hindquarter out to stop. The whole point is to keep the horse working out in front of you.
Sara, I am going to be tough with you on this one. I am also going to be honest and tell you this exercise and the next one may take you a month to master. Don't hurry it. I would expect the first time you do this correctly, you could be in the pen upwards of an hour and she will be soaking wet. Forget the physical part of the task. This is working on her making deeper changes that will last.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 8, 2012 6:20:53 GMT -5
I said a month to master and that is a poor choice of words. It will take you a month to get it down - it will take a year to master. Getting the change in the horse is the easy part. Changing yourself is what takes longer  ! The only purpose to traditional lunging is to chase the horse away from you, go in mindless circles and hopefully you'll get the willies out before you climb up there. None of this is conducive to actually training your horse. Not to mention besides teaching your horse to ignore you, it will take you longer and longer before you can get on because you are just making them more in shape to argue longer. The point of this is to train your horse before you ride; not ride your horse and then try to train them. |
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 8, 2012 23:34:39 GMT -5
Got it. And thank you for saying it like it is. We have a lot of work ahead of us. I will do a video Monday morning to see if I am starting right.
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Post by DianneC on Jun 9, 2012 9:44:23 GMT -5
Yeah! I'm so impressed with both sides of this conversation. There is nothing better than some on who will tell you how it is in kindness. Second only is the willingness to learn and change. Thank you for doing this!
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 9, 2012 20:52:40 GMT -5
Not a problem on my part. I needed to learn and to find a way to help Dollie and myself work better together. The real one to thank here is Michelle. There is no way I could be doing any of this without her. I would be utterly lost on what to do without her. I am just hoping that my mistakes and problems can help someone else learn what to do in a similar situation or to just learn what not to do as I have made a lot of mistakes.
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 13, 2012 0:01:01 GMT -5
Ok so i have been doing what I think is right and she has started to slow and stop when I turn from shoulder to hip but she doesn't turn her hip away. I will try to get a video but I have been working her at night when it starts to cool down so videos are harder to get
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 13, 2012 13:57:41 GMT -5
Working Dollie this morning seems tk have been a good decision. I'm still not sure if I'm doing it right. I'll get a video tonight. But counter clockwise she will stop and turn her hip away a step but clockwise she just stops straight and if I reposition myself to try to get her to move her hip she takes off so I push her forward and try again. Though now thinking back she is bringing her shoulder round counter clockwise not her hip. grrrr. I will do the video tonight hopefully the sun cooperates.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 13, 2012 14:54:57 GMT -5
Yes, this will be a perfect exercise for her. Her not giving her hip is not yielding her feet. A nervous or disrespectful horse will not give you their hind feet. I think will Dollie, she likes to keep control of her feet for escape. I am glad you noticed she was bringing her shoulder around and not stepping under and away with the inside hind. You are doing the right thing by pushing her on when she stops but not gives those feet. Keep at it - its' gonna be awhile!!
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Post by gotkiger on Jun 13, 2012 17:50:23 GMT -5
When she doesn't give her feet when is a good time to stop? Do I try to get her to turn in even just with her front an work on getting the hind later or do I ask for something else to end on a good note.
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