breed

[fantasykiger]

'It is my understanding that little to no white markings is desired as ideal'... you are correct.

My feelings on the matter, chrome is a matter of personal preference. I have no issue with a solid dun Kiger Mustang being labeled ideal, I don't like the idea of horse being disqualified from registration for white markings.

[MustangsInNC]

Do all registries disqualify because of white? The colt I like has 1 white foot. I am planning on eventually getting a mare and having 1 baby every couple of years, and I like the idea of them being registered. But I really do like the colt... I doubt seriously if a white foot would deter me from adopting him, lol. But would it stop me from registering him?

[Michelle Clarke]

One white foot does not disqualify from any of the registries if I am not mistaken. Since technically, the horses at adoption are "culls", a lot of the time they have white on them. Ideally they are not supposed to have white, but then again we get back to breeding out good horses just because of color when there are not a lot to choose from to begin with and the gene pool is limited from the start. Charro has one white foot and I only know of one of his foals (I belive Calista??) that has the white foot. None of mine have had it. Sage also has a tall white stocking on one foot and I have three of her foals and none have it. It seems like face marks get passed more often in my herd.

[DianneC]

Yes, Calista has one stocking, and a little on her face but none of her 5 foals have anything more than a small star. She is registered KMA and SMKR.

[fantasykiger]

I believe it is a matter of how much white before disqualification and I imagine it would have to be alot of white.
In the KHAR.. 'White markings are a fault which if in excess is a disqualification.'

[lwood92]

Mari has a big blaze on her face, but no other white. Initially, I passed her up at the adoption. I liked everything else about her, just not the blaze. Then when it came right down to it I decided to adopt her. I am so glad I did. She has such a great horsenality and I think she has pretty good conformation and great movement. I don't know if her blaze would be a considered excessive and a disqualification, I hope not. But, on the other hand it doesn't change what a great horse I think she will be and I'll see what happens with the foals she produces and go from there.

[fantasykiger]

There are several registries and while they do not not promote white markings, they do not disqualify for them. Be sure to educate yourself with all registries before making your choice, if you plan to register your Kiger Mustang.

[karismakigers]

Just going off the one photo it appears that Mari would pass inspection with KHAR fairly easily. Her blaze only costs her 6 points. Briefly looking at her, she just might score with a star (which is 90 or better), further evaluation of her entire conformation from all angles would give a better idea.

Since we are discussing horses, registeries and what will/will not register/qualify, I thought I'd put my two cents in.

Perhaps I should move this topic to a new one. I thought now would be a good time to set the record straight on some 'rumors' running around the net. If anyone has specific questions they'd like to ask, I'll do my best answering them. Here are a few points to ponder below as you form your questions:

Regarding white and KHAR:

KHAR doesn't take off points for coronet markings.
KHAR doens't take off points for a lone pastern marking(to the top of the pastern joint)
KHAR only takes off 1 point for each additional pastern marking beyond the free one.
KHAR takes off 3 points for a sock (any white above the pastern joint to the bottom of the hock/knee joint).

Incidently, our levels are much higher than most definitions of markings. Most registeries (non-Kiger) have pasterns as white below the bottom of the pastern joint. Their socks range from the bottom of the pastern joint to the center or bottom of the hock/knee. Some of their short socks would qualify as our pasterns.

Essentially, a Kiger with no conformation issues but with a white blaze, three socks and a pastern would score an 85. That is a considerable amount of white. A passing score for registeration is 80. All horses with 90 and better get recognition with stars.

KHAR's inspections are geared to evaluating riding conformation while maintaining the characterisitics that were selected by the BLM when the Kiger horse was formed into a breed.

Body Type (22 points) takes into account neck, shoulder, barrel, hip and overall appearance. Length, blending and how a neck attaches into the body/withers is evaluated. Shoulder length and angle and blending/attachment is evaluated. The depth of chest, length of back, spring of rib is evaluated. Hip shape, tail set, muscling is evaluated. The overall appearance that the horse protrays is evaluated.

Head (6 points) takes into account the ears, jaw, muzzle and head profile balance. How are the ears carried, overall size and shape, wide clean cut jaw, medium fine muzzle, medium length head, balanced with body, not overly refined, but not coarse.

Legs (23 points) takes into account pasterns, cannons, knees, hocks, foreleg overall and hind leg overall. Looks for common conformation defects (buck knee, calf knee, sickle hock, etc.). Evaluation of Kiger traits and proper conformation.

Jillian McIntosh

[Michelle Clarke]

Jillian,

I wanted to thank you for coming on board and posting here. I think you and the registry (and Norm!) have a lot to offer and seem to have the future in mind.

At what age do you do evaluations? In the Spanish/Iberian breeds, they can be inscribed at a young age (under 3), which means they fit a basic criteria. I belive the Spanish will revise at 3-5 yrs. I am not sure if they have a funtionality under saddle, but I would be surprised if they did not. The Portuguese will inspect at 3, then again under saddle and conformation at a minimal age of 4.

I do not see a change in my horses until they are between 4 and 5 years of age. They seem to mature more and come together at that point. Both Rev and Chach made big changes during that year and right now Desi is looking more together these past few weeks.

[karismakigers]

Thank you Michelle for your kind comments. Many, many people came together to make KHAR a reality and contributed in various levels to the design and formation to the organization. Without everyone's tireless & dogged efforts to come up with an organization that maintains the integrity of the breed while allowing as much inclusion of people's ideals as possible, KHAR would not exist. Norm and I aren't the center of KHAR but we are faithful participants and supporters of its mission.

Inspection are done at one year of age and older. KHAR does have a provisional registration that allows breeders to have temporary paperwork on youngsters to assist with selling, ownership documentation, showing, etc. Inspections are done in-person, or by photo. Video is also accepted. Personally, I like inspecting horses that are 3 and older. They have most things balanced and together and are passed that terrible yearling and two year old growth spurts.

KHAR discussed the idea of having approved or keuring type inspections where the horse is older, at liberty as well as under saddle. There was too many people that were unfamiliar with the more intense inspections that other breeds do for registration purposes. A higher type inspection might still be possible for rating excellence in the breed, but I don't think the Kiger industry (breeders/owners) will accept intense inspections as a requirement for registration.

I am still working on a proposal that would develop a sort of "Subject Recommend" and "Reproductive Elite", (S.R. and R.E. title, respectively). An inspection on an older horse (4+ years) that is under saddle. The plan is for three phase inspections: conformation examination at halter, movement examination at liberty, and movement/collection/suitability under saddle. Those that showed superior conformation, temperament, trainability, etc. would be awarded the S.R. title and recommended for breeding. Evaluation is done by a panel of judges (3 or 5) and an average of the scores taken. The R.E. title would be awarded to a stallion based on a set number of S.R. offspring and something similar for the mare. Maybe 10 S.R. offspring for a stallion to receive an R.E. title and 3 or 5 S.R. offspring for a mare to receive an R.E. title.

This, of coarse, would be beyond and above the inspection for registration.

Jillian McIntosh

[lwood92]

Thanks Jilliam for your comments about Mari. Thank you also for your clarifications of what white is acceptable. I like your ideas about the S.R. and R.E. titles. I think those would be good additions.

[fantasykiger]

Thanks Jillian for stepping in and explaining in more detail your inspection process. It is of great interest and help. I too like the idea of the S.R. and the R.E. titles for the future, I think it is a good idea. Sort of a way for their to be an elite club for breeders and owners to strive to be a part of. I think the Kigers need a goal, that would one possible goal for them, to attain that title.

[dmr]

I know that some of the registries are working on different levels and maybe that is the way to go. That there is a blood regestry, if born on the HMA you are a blood registered Kiger and if you are born of that combo, you are a blood registered Kiger.

Then maybe there should also be within the same registry a superior registry recognition for inspection. Hopefully, this is where the future breeding stock would come from. But this way, we would not be dumping "grade" Kigers out there.

I know that the paper doesn't make them who they are but lets get real: with more horses than ever going through auctions, papers just might save them from a Kill pen. Here in Washington there are some Kill Buyers that will not send to slaughter a registered horse.

But again, the registries need to get together so it is not so confusing as to who has what and what it all means. Lets give these horses a chance! OTOH, lets not just put out crap and slap a registry on it and say "Oh, look its a Kiger." There is enough of that out there in the other breeds right now that will register anything just because it came from registered parents.

If you look at the breeds that are regarded for value and quality, they have inspection.

[nrly]

I do not feel a white marking of any kind should penalize a Kiger, from what I just read it is the gene pool that can cause this to happen, to much inbreeding I guess. And these horses have come from the wild,even the captive raised their ancestors came from the wild and hence inbreeding and that gene will be with them forever you can't breed it out it will crop up periodically.. Now here is a question I hope can be answered.
My Stormy has a tri colored mane and tail, will that be a deduction.
nola

[lindad]

Nola,
Bi-colored manes and tails are highly prized dun factor traits! I have not heard of or seen tri-colored. I bet it is pretty and yes desireable. Some of Dianne's horses have extreme bi-coloring and it is gorgeous! The leg stripes, bi-coloring in the manes and tails, barring, shading, outlining, cobwebbing, wide dark dorsal stripes, masks, jackstripes, tri-colored ears, edged in black with white tips and fawn inner ear, black lower leg with fawn feathers are all part of the dun factor coloration. This is what comprises dun factor chrome! They are all primitive markings, and the more ya got the higher the dun factor score! White is not part of the dun factor, therefore discouraged, even though it may be pretty. White will rarely disqualify a horse unless there are other more serious conformation issues that already lower the score significantly.
Hope that this helps.
Linda D