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Post by barbhorses on Jan 21, 2009 17:54:24 GMT -5
I am not sure about him being bored. His owner is a licensed dressage trainer. So, she rides him and makes him go through his paces. Then when he doesn't want to go into a canter or he doesn't want to go in a circle or a direction she does he will give her some attitude and let out a little buck. He doesn't get violent or anything. He is a good horse. Maybe he doesn't like dressage? I have no idea. She showed him several times and stopped due to people coming to find out he was a Mustang and then the judges wouldn't place him where he deserved. A real shame. Thankfully, the attitude towards Mustangs in general is improving. So, hopefully people wont be so prejudice against them anymore.
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 22, 2009 11:08:29 GMT -5
You know what they say about training mules, don't you? A mule trainer can train a horse, but a horse trainer can't train a mule. Why? Horse trainers are in too much of a hurry. I suppose in that respect, mustangs are like mules, which is why so many 'horse' trainers can't figure them out and trash talk them.
With the success of JB Andrews, whom everyone knew was a mustang, I'm not sure I'd buy into that reasoning. But who knows.
I happen to think Kelly is spot on, though. Mustang or not, some horses just haven't got it in them to play the games we ask, whether or not they're physically able. I had a lovely little qh filly years ago; her father was AAA on the track and her mom had been shown. She, however, had no interest in going in circles. As a three year old you could plunk a beginner on her and she'd be happy as could be out on the trail doing whatever they asked. She did not see the point in arena work, whether it was circle trotting, trail class or anything else. It wasn't that she couldn't, she was just bored with it and wanted to be elsewhere. Her heart wasn't in it.
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 22, 2009 11:55:16 GMT -5
Well, you can not believe her story if you like. As far as I know what she said was true and she has absolutely no reason to lie to me. She is a very sweet lady and has been around horses all her life. She said that he use to place well until the judges (local shows mind you!) found out that he was a Mustang. Then she said that for some odd reason she started to place badly in the classes even though she deserved a ribbon (1st, 2nd, or 3rd). So, she said that she got sick of it and stopped showing.
He was actually a train reck out on the trail. He would get really scared and then bolt home. Which is not good in general, but it made it extra scary as the trails were all basically going up hill when you first set out on them. So he would act like the horse from snowy river and make a run for it downhill towards home. I couldn't convince her to take him out on the trail with me and my Sulphur mare as she said that he was just way too much for her on the trail. Which I can't blame her. I cannot imagine not being able to gain any control of my horse as she flies down a hill and having to go down steeper areas with loose rock and narrow trails. She said that she was able to bail though. Thankfully!
She did say that he is lazy horse and doesn't like to work very hard. Which to me, sounds like where all of his stubbornness is coming from. I hope that her Kiger/Lusitano gelding will be a horse that likes to work.
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 22, 2009 20:09:32 GMT -5
So when do we find out if our guesses were right??
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 23, 2009 7:31:58 GMT -5
Great guesses guys!!! Lusitano, Sulpher, Kiger, Andalusian. I picked ones that were not too "typical" of the breed. The Kiger looks like he has a long back, it is the angle and also he was underweight then too (he's our of Steens Azure). The Lusitano is the heavier type; the Sulpher is a very nice looking horse if you ask me; and the Andalusian is too round for my tastes....btw, they cut the manes and tails on the mares like that (and the foals). The mares, it cleans up for foaling and rebreeding; the foals, it gets rid of all that baby fuzz that always looks crummy on the ends of the hair. The bullfighting stallions have their manes and tails braided...
I have another group that I will put up in the next day or so.
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dunbnwild
Yearling
Wild horses can drag me away :-)
Posts: 403
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Post by dunbnwild on Jan 23, 2009 13:59:24 GMT -5
The Kiger looks like he has a long back, it is the angle and also he was underweight then too (he's our of Steens Azure). quote] I bought Catalina and Lazuli (also out of Azure) from the same breeder in AZ that had Azure. Is this her colt by Steens Mountain Medicine Man? Cat's pregnancy to SMMM never took. I even hauled all the way back to AZ for a retry. But no luck. Such a cool stallion.:-( |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 23, 2009 14:06:26 GMT -5
Yes, Lakota is by Steens Mountain Medicine Man...he should have been kept a stallion in my opinion. Lakota can drop his hindend and drive just like a good Lusitano.
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 23, 2009 20:45:51 GMT -5
What is the pedigree of the Sulphur? Do you know who owns him?
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Post by DianneC on Jan 23, 2009 20:56:30 GMT -5
Well I missed the Andy and Luistano, I was relying on the color of the last horse. I haven't seen that in an Andalusian before. Too bad the Kiger and Andy are not square, it would be interesting to compare their angles.
What I notice about both Sulphurs is the open angle of the hip, Smoke is somewhat the same way. The Andy and Luiso's hips are much deeper and the angle is more closed.
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 23, 2009 21:00:11 GMT -5
What I don't like about the PRE is that her hip is really high. She is displaying her Arabian influence to a degree. What I don't like about the PSL's hip is that his sacrum is not round like what you see with the Sulphur. A flat sacrum is not Iberian. He should have that nice round hip with the low set tail like the Sulphur stud I posted.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 24, 2009 9:29:47 GMT -5
Dianne, I picked the PRE because of her color - "greybank". Here is the website for these horses. Some pretty nice looking ones. Not exactly dun, but buckskin, some greying. www.Yeguadaelbayo.com/The deeper, closed angles (very observant BTW), allow the legs to "unfold" if you will. This is desired for both reach and lift. It is my understanding that open angles are very limited. The PSL is not square and his inside hip is almost the highest point in that picture. The "sacrum" is five vertabrae fused together, linking together the body and hind legs. The sacrum, in it of itself, cannot be "round". It is actually pretty flat and cannot flex. Where it joins the lumbar (lower back behind the saddle), there is the Lumbosacral joint (LS). It is here that you get your "flex" in the hindend (well, one of the places). In an Iberian type horse, this joint is very very flexible and allows the muscle that goes from the abdomen to the hip, to bring it forward and come under the horse - it is the combination of these two things that give you the flex in the hip. Interestingly, the sacrum and last vertabrae in the lumber fuse by the time the horse is 10 years old. This means if you have not utilized that flex by then, you are very limited later on in training. You want that to fuse as "closed" as available....if you ever want to do deeper collection for more upper level work. The area above the sacrum is the croup. This is the area that can be deep, round or flat, depending on muscling (either genetic or developed) or subcutanious fat level. Most Iberian type horses appear to have a more angled (deep) croup, as oppposed to a QH, because of the angle of the LS joint (and lumbar, which should be rounded), allowing the sacrum to sit deeper instead of flat (as some people see as round). This is very obvious in younger growing horses, underweight animals and underdeveloped animals. When you look at a Sorraia for instance, you will notice this. I have lots of good picts to put up this afternoon to illustrate...  |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 24, 2009 13:55:34 GMT -5
Following are three pictures of sacrums. You can see they are relatively flat and the angles of the top are all pretty similar. The sacrum has five vertabrae. The top two are either stock type (QH) or Thoroughbred. The bottom is a Paso Fino.    You can see that the Paso sacrum has the appearance of "rounded"... however, in the next pict, you can see the lumbar and part of the thoracic vertabrae. The roundess or bend is not normal. This horse appeared almost roach backed, and while he did gait very well, he was weak backed, very stiff and did not look normal. The funny thing is, when you saw this horse, he looked like his hip just fell down away from the top of the pelvis - no roundness what so ever... I don't think I have any picts of him alive and well, but I will see what I can come up with - I might have some picts of him when he was younger.  This is the Lumbosacral joint that joins the sacrum with the lumbar. You can see in the center where the joint actually was, but also the wings on either side also have attachments.  Here is a top view for those interested. The wings off of the lumbar are all that there is. The ribs come off of the thoracic (I think I have some somewhere that are still connected if anyone wants to see). It not only has the tough job of connecting the hind limbs to the back (where the rider/saddle sit), but also the job of holding up the bulk of the internal organs. That is why there should never ever ever never never ever ever never - NEVER, carry any top weight - meaning don't put your saddle back there or sit there!  So now that you get a good idea of the skeletal, I will dig up some picts to illustrate the angles and the croup. |
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 24, 2009 14:50:01 GMT -5
Thank you for posting that. You can visibly see now how a Spanish horse has a rounded croup. And also what a person means when they say a sacrum should be rounded.  Did you find the pedigree of that Sulphur? I am very curious as when I saw the pic the horse didn't appear to be a Sulphur. |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 24, 2009 19:28:47 GMT -5
Agian, the sacrum itself is NOT rounded....it is on that Paso, but he was deformed looking in his lower back and his hip fell at a sharp angle away from the illium. You would never look at him and say he had a rounded croup/sacrum/whatever. That is why I put up the pict of the thoracic/lumbar, to show how bizzare it is. I roughly place those pieces together here:  You see that the sacrum should even be angled down more, but you get the idea. The yellow dot is the top of the pelvis and then not far down is the start of the tail. There is not that much room there for an actual hip, plus see how sharp the angle is...rounded sacrum in the sense of producing a round hip, I don't think so. I don't have specifics on the sulpher...the pict was sent to me by a friend of the owner...he may not be the typical Sulpher, but he sure is nice!! |
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Post by barbhorses on Jan 24, 2009 20:49:12 GMT -5
Would you mind getting more information about him? Or send me the contact info of the person that owns him? It is important as I would like to know which bloodlines are producing horses that look like him.
Do you have anymore pictures of him? Perhaps you could send me those by PM if you do.
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