Feed for wild/spanish type horses

[DianneC]

What percentage of protein do you feed for yearlings and weanlings and what source do you use?

[dmiecznik]

this is interesting I have a kiger now got him for xmas 09 I just feed him 2 flakes of alf and same for my appy mare she gets safe choice grain and vitmins he gets vitamins and a handful of safechoice does that sound right for the winter time in summer I just feed grass hay and vitamins Thanks Danielle

[Michelle Clarke]

Welcome to the list, Danielle and congrats on your Kiger!

Nutrition is a difficult subject, as not every horse does well on the same pat diet. After years of research and lots of trail and error, we use a whole food diet, some of it discussed on this forum here:

kigers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nutrition&action=display&thread=892


I used to use Safechoice years back, but noticed that the pellets were always a different color or consistancy (or smelled different) each time we got a load (we use almost 40 bags of feed weekly). I later learned that there is no regulation on livestock feed like food for human consumption - which I guess I just assumed. They don't have to list all the ingredients, nor do they have to be in order of amount. The only thing that needs to be met are the "guaranteed analysis" as far as protein level, fat, etc. Now, this is where it gets interesting...it does not matter how they get there! Companies have the bags printed, then shipped out to mills across the country. They use what is on hand to fill the requirements; so one run can be soy, the next corn, etc. plus many fillers to make up the bulk.

Now, I have seen some horses that do fine on it, mostly older ones who can't handle lots of starch and don't do alot of work plus done growing. However, the hard working horses and growing horses need protein, carbs and starches. We had a problem with those two groups on the feed, plus the horses lost condition over winter. Also, if you are only feeding a small amount, you are not getting the "guaranteed analysis" of the vit/mins/fat that are recomended. Sadly, they usually have to intake very high amounts of the feed (like up to ten pounds per day), if you want the full benefit of what they claim the feed has. If you did feed what they recommended, the horses would be HUGE and very unhealthy.

We've went to mainly a grain based diet to balance out the hay. There are alot of misconceptions about starches, as I found doing the research...interestingly, I found that it is mostly the feed companies that have scared folks off of natural grains because they can't make their mortgage payments if you buy a $9 bag of oats!

Last year we went with an extruded, low starch feed for the rest of the ranch - excluding most of my horses. We have just about every breed come through for training, etc, so it was very interesting to see the results. Most did fine...being quarter horses or QH types (but I have been told by nutrionalists that these horses can live on plastic because of the huge variety of breeds that make them up, very hardy); but the Thoroughbreds, warmbloods, arabian types and some mustangs did horribly on it. No topline, no muscle tone, no energy. The winter was really bad and the horses looked bad in my opinion. Now, take in the fact I was paying $17 for a 40 pound bag and most horses getting over the recommended amount. It was crazy!

I knew we could not go through another winter like that, so this october, I switched to just plain oats. Within 3 days, most horses bloomed out in dapples...in their winter coats. The hot types filled in in the right places (not just fat bellies) and the other horses lost the fat pockets and started to look real good. Most of the horses (in training mind you) get three pounds per day, some six. Hardly enough to cause starch related issues. Everyone has wintered very well and it has been an unusually cold winter here in Texas, plus most live outside.

Each horse can have a different level of tolerance of starch...the basic formula is .5% of total body weight per feeding (each feeding being a minimum of two hours apart, as this is how long the proccess takes for digestion). That would mean a limit of 5 pounds of grain each feeding - which is ALOT!

I have had folks all over the country (and Canada!) try the whole food diet and everyone has had great successes...even if they do the base diet of oats, barley and sea kelp. The more whole, natural feeds you can feed your horses, the better off they are. The proccessed feeds are the equivelant of us living on take out or boxed food.

Sorry about the looooonnnngggg response!

[dmiecznik]

thanks for your help so you are saying to feed only Oats, Barley sea kelp for the winter . I will start after this bag I bought how much of each kind should I feed ? is their a ratio? I want to feed the mustang correctly. the appy is doing ok on the grain so far but I should switch her too. she will be taking a brake for a while . I will be working with the little guy. thanks Danielle

I read the link thanks

[kimk]

Welcome Danielle! Is that Sage?? Did you get him from a lady named Tamara? Congratulations!

[dmiecznik]

hi, Kimk yes that is him but now his name is cherokee aka "little Man" found this forum and learning all

what do you have ? I don't think I have met you so HI

[wildcardranch]

Welcome Danielle,
Congratulations on your purchase of little man. My daughter (also Danielle) and I went up and looked at Sage in Nov. What a little cutie, such potential! My Danielle has decided to buy a horse from Kim. I have a coming 11 year old 1/2 Kiger by her stallion Ki. Now we'll have 2 Ki babies. We're on Tiger Mtn. near Issaquah. We'd love to keep in touch and watch little man's progress. Maybe ride our Kigers together. I took about 10 pics of him when we went to see him and I'd be glad to mail them to you. Welcome and best to you and your new love
Darla

[dmiecznik]

thanks Darla
I would love to ride but not for a while he is not ready going to wait till next year an see let him grow some and work on the ground manners . maybe by then I will have a horse trailer and truck to pull it. You can email pictures I am waiting till he sheds to take more Pictures at home . He is very sweet I think he will be an awesome trail horse.
Danielle

[DianneC]

Bumping this up as I have questions about my mares and their overweight condition. Sedona (bred) and Teanna (not bred) are both obese. Quil is young so she's not, neither are Blue or Donza. I really want to get some weight off of Sedona and Teanna. I have two pastures, one for Blue (stallion) that I will move Donza into for the winter. That way I can keep their calories higher. My questions is what to do for Teanna and Sedona. They are on pasture 24/7 so this winter is the time to get some weight off. They get about 16-18 pounds of good local grass hay, unless it gets cold, then an extra flake at night. They get about 2 coups of whole oats/rolled barley with vitamins and flax seed supplement.

[Michelle Clarke]

Two things I would look at: insulin resistance and thyroid. Both can appear the same or you could have both going on. You are not feeding too much grain, so look at your percentages. If you feel it is more IR (insulin), bump barley up to 50% or just over. It is a double edged sword though because barely puts on weight...oats for energy, barley to maintain weight. For IR, bumping the barley will break up blood sugar - it is used for people with diabetes. Oats regulates sugar so it is released slower and not all at once - no spikes and drops. I think it is funny when "experts" say no oats/grain for horses with sugar issues - it is the perfect feed for them.

IR horses will fill in above the eye in the cavity up there. Instead of being indented, it will be soft and fill in or even stick out. You'll also see funny fat pockets along the spine above the sacrum before the tail. The spine will be lower and even have "dropped" areas.

Thyroid is pretty easy to deal with. 95% of horses with a thyroid issue are hypo-thyroid, which means low iodine. Even if they have a salt block, they may not be taking enough in. Cold water sea kelp takes care of it. 1 tbs/day, start out everyday until you see that neck going down, then begin to back off until you find a good level. Most of my guys are on it three times per week. Many clients I put on this have to use daily for 1-3 months (depending on the level of deficiency). Many times it is a good idea to do things for a whole blood cycle, which is 12 weeks - this gives the body a chance to balance to the best advantage.

So, check your barley levels, then add the sea kelp; see if that does not help.

[stormyranch]

I have the same problem with Lovely. She never lost her fat from summer pasture and just stays fat on 4 flakes of grass hay a day. I think our NW green pastures could be the problem.

[Michelle Clarke]

You are lucky to have such grass...we've finally had some rain but it will not STOP raining, so all the grass is like 99% water! No nutrition. I've begun to feed the Wild Bunch - yeah, 15 horses with hay at $15/bale...wish I had the fat problem now!

[DianneC]

The grass is a mixed blessing. Right now there isn't more than a 1/4 inch tall as we've had hard freezes, but it is something to nibble on during the day. When it comes on in the Spring its wonderful, but this year Spring lasted all summer. I cross fenced with hot wire and they ended up going through the fence. And the girls got so fat! They have fat pads behind their shoulders even. I've been doing 50% rolled barley, and 50% crimped/whole oats. I'll add the kelp too.

[pepper]

Hey Dianne,just wondering why your mares are getting any grain at all?If they aren't in heavy work and are obese...I'd cut all the grain & give them minimal good grass hay till they showed some weight loss & then modify as needed,Amigo never had a bite of grain in his life & I still had trouble keeping his weight in check & he was ridden 3 times a week the last couple of years.I did give him a wet mash of beet pulp(2 cups ),ground flax & LMF non-structured carb pellets(soy/hay)2 cups & spirolina for his allergies.He was on pasture(not lush)& got 2 flakes of 20/80 alf-grass hay daily.

[Michelle Clarke]

Much against what is usually thought of...concentrates are needed to balance dry forages (or plain pasture), just as in the wild horses eat much more than plain grass all the time. When a horse is only getting hay, their nutritional needs are not met and they are always hungry, even though they gain weight (fermenting hay weight!). When they are fed concentrates, even small amounts, they no longer crave to try to fill themselves up. Equate it to us eating a lot of empty calories - we are still hungry , even though we are full. Besides, Sedona is bred and NEEDS extra protein and nutrients grain offers. Horses in an inflammatory state (fat...) needs the oats and barley to regulate and break up sugars. Our horses never get any soy or beet pulp. Another two misconceptions. Soy has high estrogenic properties and not only makes mares "evil" but can cause geldings to have hormone and metabolic reactions too (such as fat!). Beet pulp is the most toxic plants due to heavy spraying of herbacides and pesticides. Having allergies may get back to the soy or beet pulp...

It is just like when you eat food that are actually healthy for you, you consume much more than eating junk food or empty calories that give you a false fullness. I have clients that are always surprised on how much better their horses look by adding the right grains and supplements and how they naturally back off of the hay.

If you cut grain out of these mares diets, they would consume even more grass and get fatter to try to cover their needs. You would have to put them on a dry lot and then by only giving hay, you are still essentially starving them - not balanced at all.