Feed for wild/spanish type horses

[Michelle Clarke]

I would love if anyone can share what they feed thier Kigers or other mustangs/spanish type horses. What works for you, what does not...any secrets you would like to share?? I would love to hear from not only owners, but breeders and folks who do any kind of performance/endurance, etc with thier Kigers.

I would also like to correspond with anyone who is knowledgable about what Kigers eat in the wild, what native grasses are up in thier ranges, etc.

Any good info on the web, books etc particular to the wild horse? Anyone I can contact in regards to these matters??

thanks guys!

Oh, has anyone ever had founder issues with these horses? ever heard of anyone who has? I have not, but I have been told my "type" of horses are in grave danger of it and I want some real life info to present.

[DianneC]

I've never heard of any founder except one person and that was due to toxic reaction to a load of hay she got with (?) recent spray of something on it. Mine have been plenty fat and not any trouble. We have grass and some clover in the pasture. They do eat young fir trees, the bark of several trees, alder especially, and blackberries (Oso could be hired out to clear blackberry stands). I've been to the Kiger HMA and its amazing that they were fat on bunch grass. The last time we were there the flats were dry and covered with uneaten weed.

[Michelle Clarke]

Thanks Dianne....I have a hard time trying to explain to these nutritionalist that the sugar in grasses and the sugar in feeds (and corn) is a complete different molecular structure and if the mustangs could not handle it they would be extinct. I have been told they need grazing muzzles or to be kept in dry lots so they don't founder. Silly, really.

[dazzlingduns]

We feed Triple Crown Lite & Low Starch Feed. Heavy on nutrition, light on carbohydrates.
Triple Crown Nutrition Inc www.triplecrownfeed.com
We also feed soaked beet pulp without molasses and pelleted soy hulls.
Melissa

[fantasykiger]

Mine are on a dry lot 24/7 365 days of the year so I buy orchard grass hay and that is what they eat twice a day. I will weigh it later tonight when I feed to let you know about how much. As far as grain goes it is individual Cleo and Fantasy gets 2 cups of crimped oats, 1/2 cup black oil sun flower seeds, 1 scoop Horse Guard and 1 cup of Safe Choice a day. Wickee gets 3 cups crimped oats, 1/2 cup black oil sunflower seeds, 1 scoop Horse Guard and 2lbs of Safe Choice, she is a growing girl.
That is what I am feeding our half Kigers presently, conditions change with time or use of the horse. I have never heard of an insident of founder or even laminitis due to feed or pasture with Kigers. Though I did have an insident of of laminitis close to founder with feeding to much orchard grass to my Morgan mare. I used to fatten my horses up in preperation for winter with more grass it was to much for that horse.

[JoanMRK]

My horses are out on pasture year round but rely on the grass from April to late October. It is a pasture mix but is mainly orchard, rye (annual and perennial), and white clover. They are obese right now and it is actually quite embarassing but being as occupied with my baby, I'm not able to get to work with them much at all. It's depressing really.

During the winter we buy around 20 ton (sheep and cattle are fed too), and it is usually a 70% grass (orchard), and 30% alfalfa, sometimes the alfalfa is less. I am normally pretty against alfalfa but our cattle and sheep need it and it does help with the horses during the cold months. It keeps them fat and happy.

For any supplementing at all, I use dry whole oats and herb mixes from www.silverliningherbs.com. I have been very happy with the results from them and do not feed my horses any corn, molassis, etc. as they truly don't need it.

[Michelle Clarke]

Two things I was recently told...horses cannot handle high amounts of fat - the liver can't proccess it and it shortens thier lives. Also, the "spanish type" horses are so inbred, linebred, that they have developed these issues that are common to closely related animals in a species.

Any comments??

In my experience, I have seen the opposite. The Veiga line in the Lusitano has had no new blood for over 136 years. These horses are far from the fat, round type of spanish/iberian horse. In fact, they are very lean. Even when bred to my Kigers, the foals are all lean and do not have the same air-fern tendancies that the purebreds do, or even the other Lusitano cross, Gringo - who has very little Viega.

The Paso Fino mare we have that has 60 crosses to the same stallion in 9 generations is a lean built horse, along with most of her foals (the stallion she was bred to tended toward the EMS issues, so some foals were more round).

So, I am not sure how that theory holds true.

[Michelle Clarke]

What fat sources would a wild horse have? I know ours eat the mesquite beans, which are very high in fat; also the acorns in fall...

[nrly]

all my horses get hay two times a day, red wheat bran,and strategy. 3lbs of red bran, 1 pound strategy for Nova, Stormy, and Flashy. 3 pounds of bran, and 2 pounds of strategy for Shooter and Riddle, and they are doing wonderful. Stormy is over weight, but I feel it is because i did not exercise her like I should have. but now she is getting worked everyday, both her and me.and we both are slimming down and toning up.

[citykid]

I don' t have a mustang (yet) but I think I would start a conversation with the zoo nutritionist that would talk care of the hooved animals - zebras, gazelles ect. You have a common thread of outstanding athletic animals that in the wild (like deer) have fantastic bodies eating tree bark, rocks ... air. Take them out of the natural habitat (zoo animals) put them in a nice clean environment, plenty access of food yadda yadda - and the zoo keepers must be up against the same problem you are encountering. What / how are they feeding the Veiga line.....
B.

[DianneC]

CityKid has a point about the zoo animals, do zebra's founder? I also wonder how they feed their horses in Portugal and Spain. The Lippizaner mares would be interesting to study as well since they are out on pasture 24/7. You are right Michelle, that wild horses would not survive if they could not store up fat for the winter without foundering.

[fantasykiger]

I weighed my hay portions and it comes out to an average of 12 lbs twice a day.
I only mentioned how I fed my Kiger Mustangs because you asked about the spanish type. But my BLM Mustang mare gets only the grass hay and 1 scoop of horse guard. She is fat, she is also 26 years old and I have had her on out on pasture on occassion through out the years, as she is not trained to ride, when ever a buddy needed a field mowed. While she might get fat she will never over eat to the point of founder. The biggest mistake she made was one year of eating to much juniper tree and leaves, they strip the bark off first to get to the tree. It caused the loss of mane and tail hair, she never repeated that insident. Yet she will still eat some juniper tree. I rarely see her at the mineral block I provide, so I do add the horse guard to her diet.
On a vacation to Mexico I visited a ranch and rode an awesome spotted spanish horse. Was given' a lesson on how to ride like a proper vaquero. At the end of the ride I got to see them bring in the feed by the truck load and feed the horses. The horses on that ranch do not eat grass but green corn stalks. I tell you, you would be hard pressed to find a fat horse in Mexico. But then again they do a hard days work every day.

[lindad]

I think that there are clear reasons that keep wild horses from founder and metabolic problems that have escalated in domesticated horses. Wild horses actually benefit due to their genetic evolution from things that might cause domestics to become obese, to founder or to develop other metabolic problems. Safer grass.org has lots to say about this:

1. Wild horses don't eat grasses selected and hybridized to fatten cattle so cattle can be slaughtered sooner. Domestic horses consume hay year round that was geared for cattle, despite workload or lack thereof. If they are working, growing, gestating, lactating, breeding it is probably not a problem, because they are able to utilize the calories.

2. When wild horses eat high concentrated sugars in new grasses it is at a time when mares are in the last trimester of their pregnancy and coming out of winter with low nutrition and need to replenish their own reserves. So they actually need and benefit from this boost. The concentration of sugars are utilized not just stored as fat.

3. Wild horses are always working, no stall bound horses, or weekend warriors here. Human athletes carb load before competition. We carb load sedate horses when they over graze stressed pastures or pastures seeded with grasses selected to store sugars in order to survive drought and overgrazing. Domestics are often eat theses high concentrations of carbs/sugars all year round not just seasonally, and without need for these concentrated calories, due to lack of work or breeding. Good pasture is not usually the problem, stressed pasture can be a big problem, because they contain the highest levels of concentrated sugars.

4. Wild horses eat grasses that will vary in sugar concentrations due to ever changing conditions of light, water, length temperature, season, variety of grasses. High concentrations will be off set by times with low concentrations. Domestics may eat hay meal after meal, day after day, from the same hay source all year long. What if this hay source was harvested at peak sugar concentration and then fed for every meal for a year to a horse that gets limited exercise? Hmmmm? The effects multiply accumulatively all year long!

4. Wild horses eat a variety of things getting a variety of nutrients from many sources. Domestics have much less variation when grazed on the same pastures or fed from the same hay source all year long perhaps for many years.

5. If your horses are breeding or work routinely they probably suffer little. Pasture pets, especially air ferns can develop metabolic disorders over time, especially in the scenario described above.

I know little about these things, but the info on safer grass made lots of sense to me. I am concerned because my horses are too sedate, not because of their genetics. Kigers adapted to meager nutrition with lots of work, not concentrated nutrition and little work. It is the lifestyle change that that is the real problem, not a genetic flaw. Genetically, they are superbly adapted to the wild. They are not genetically adapted to my small acreage and nice hay, and lack of work. Some of you with brood mares that have stopped breeding them due to market conditions may see some changes in the future if you don't find a different job for them.

All horses need good nutrition, not all horses need concentrated nutrition. Wild horses can feed all day and maybe not get what our horses get in one flake of hay. My fat mare acts like she is starving because she is geared to eat a little all day long. In the wild where food is scarce, higher concentrations of sugars would be an advantage.

I sure don't have the answers but I recognize that obesity in horses as well as humans is a huge problem, and one that has increased dramatically! (How could I say it without the puns?) My horse and I are examples. My young ones have just grown to be much larger than their mom. I suspect they could get fat in the future as they are maturing, unless they get to work!

Linda D

[Michelle Clarke]

Linda, thanks for bringing that info over, it is sure alot to think about. I agree with you that they have evolved genetically to live as they do, not the way we do and there in lies the problems.

[DianneC]

There is an article in the June Horse Illustrated about fats and the benefits of Omega 3's in reducing inflammation and allergies. One source is flax and also canola, sunflower and soybean oils. It also talks about Omega 6 fats that increase inflammation. Black sunflower seeds are listed in this category along with corn, safflower and cottonseed oils. Why sunflower oil is listed as a source of Omega 3s and black sunflower seeds a source of Omega 6 is a puzzle. Most of the information is being taken from work in humans and other animals. It also talks about ulcers and insulin resistance.