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Post by DianneC on Jan 10, 2008 19:50:42 GMT -5
Who is the Lusitano in the picture?
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Post by kigerfan on Jan 10, 2008 22:08:16 GMT -5
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Post by fantasykiger on Jan 11, 2008 14:16:27 GMT -5
The only color characteristic not excepted by the Appaloosa registry is Paint/Pinto pattern.
Those are some really nice Lusitano stallions for sure.
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Post by nrly on Jan 11, 2008 18:01:44 GMT -5
wow he is awesome and if I did not know what breed I would have thought Kiger.
nola
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Post by kigerfan on Jan 12, 2008 4:26:31 GMT -5
I think both of them are gorgeous and well worth the consideration of a cross breeding, but that's not in the cards for Firefly for the forseeable future.
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Post by angelsdream on Jun 17, 2008 8:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by fantasykiger on Jun 17, 2008 12:03:43 GMT -5
What a lovely mare Your friend has, really impressive  and I recognized one of the other foals, Sycha's colt, I believe belongs to Michelle. I like the looks of the Morgan cross as well, that made for a very lovely horse. I never would have thought of making that cross over. |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 17, 2008 12:27:03 GMT -5
I so prefer the Lusitano over the Andalusian. I know there is alot of "controversy" as to they are one and the same...maybe hundreds of years ago, but not now. Having trained and bred both, there are very distinct differences. I had bred PRE's (Pure Raza de Espanol - the "purest" andalusian) and trained alot of them and they were very sweet, I loved the conformation (not the long, weaker back, flat croups you see nowadays) but they had no work ethic. The Lusos just flat like to work and in my opinion are so much more athletic than most of the Andys' I see in the states.
Most "andalusians" in the USA are crossbreds between them and the Luso or various percentages. Alot of folks had done this for various reasons (ignorance being one) and the fact that most of the small Luso population here is related. I am hoping that with the big Brazillian Lusitano auction they just had in Florida, that alot of those bloodlines are staying here.
We bred both Sycha and Chilli (the hispano arabe mare) to Saphiro for last years foals. Sychas' colt, Gringo, is most likely a double dilute, black based but also has the dun markings. I have been bad about not sending his hair in to be tested, but plan on doing that in the next week or so! He string tested to be 17 hands, but he has very long cannons and his knee sits more in the middle of his leg as opposed to closer to the foot, so I doubt he will get that big. He is a super sweet colt.
Chillis' colt, Rio, is a nice palamino and he is another sweet heart, very easy to work with and takes everything in stride. I will post some picts later tonight...
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Post by angelsdream on Jun 17, 2008 13:05:19 GMT -5
Yes I think the Luso / Kiger cross is great. I haven't done a whole lot of looking but it looks like the kiger's might add some good coloring to the luso's.
Michelle, have you still got Gringo? Cool name also!
How are Luso's temperment's? I dont think Ive actually ever been around a Lusitano. Of course there is a big market for dressage horse's around here, so Im sure there are some if I looked hard enough. I'd love to go see one.
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Post by barbhorses on Jun 17, 2008 16:52:35 GMT -5
Maybe I had read this somewhere else a long time ago, but have long since forgotten. What is the goal with crossing your Mustangs with Lusitanos? There are so many types of horses out there that are specifically bred for certain tasks. What makes the mustang/Luso cross worth breeding? What nitch in the horse world would you consider they are filling? Or is just for your own purposes? Why not just straight Kigers? Or straight Lusos? Why a crossbreed? Also, why Lusitanos? Why not something old Iberian such as the Peruvian Paso, Paso Fino, Chilean Criollo, etc which would certainly be more closely related to the Kigers? I saw an excellent Chilean stallion at the Fiesta of the Spanish Horse and he could have run laps around the other Spanish breeds. VERY athletic, fast, obedient with LOADS of courage. Gorgeous conformation and temperament. You could really envision a Conquistador on him! He is a lovely sooty dun in color with typical Iberian height of 14.2HH. He is also a National Champion stallion in his home of Chile.
The Luso crosses are very pretty I must say. Kira is just plain gorgeous! Saphiro has certainly proven himself to be an excellent producing stallion!
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Post by nrly on Jun 18, 2008 1:02:39 GMT -5
how true is this: I heard that the quarter horse breed came for the Andalusian breed.
Jim and I have as you all know bought Riddle, and we will breed him to Stormy, and my husbands BLM mustang. I thought about cross breeding, but at this time I won't. But we are going to start taking Riddle and Stormy in allot of Pow Wows and go from their. We hope 2009 will be the year of the Kigers for us.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jun 18, 2008 11:18:23 GMT -5
I began crossing the Kiger and Luso after many frustrating years of trying to get Kiger folks together for promotion, exhibition and showing. I had spent many years breeding/training/showing PRE's, Paso Finos and Lusitanos. I wanted to get the Kigers into a larger arena and into the public eye on a different level, so I began crossing them with the Lusos. I prefer the Lusos mainly for two reasons in my opinion: better conformation and work ethic than the Andys.
The Kigers have the whole package and the purebreds are what I prefer as my personal horses. However, I am not my client and besides the fact I cannot sell a 14 hand horse that can't run down a cow here in Texas! The "niche" I am filling, depends on the cross I am doing. I have done other crosses besides the Lusos - I am building a wide range of cliente with different needs and likes, but it all comes down to breeding for type, trainability, bonding, soft gaits and versatility - looks are important too, obviously, because when it comes down to it, no one wants to ride an ugly horse!
Honestly, I have looked at other iberian type breeds and cannot find the quality and breeding consistancy that I want in my broodstock. I am doing some Paso Fino crossbreds, but these are proven, linebred, imported bloodlines that I know and have trained and shown. I won't do Peruvians because of the Termino.
My QH crosses are foundation, line/inbred and produce phenominal hybrid vigour foals. The F1 mares then produce the best quality and quantity milk and I breed back for F1bs. The Luso line I prefer is the best bullfighting line in Portugal and has had no new blood for over 135 years. The hybrid vigour by those crosses are amazing! Sensitive, hot, athletic, bold and brazen! Those are for my performance clients and for my breeding program...
Yes, I still have Gringo - he is a year old now.
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Post by barbhorses on Jun 18, 2008 13:15:49 GMT -5
how true is this: I heard that the quarter horse breed came for the Andalusian breed. This is not true. The modern PRE and PSL are MAYBE 200 years old. The Andalusian and Lusitano are the product of expert breeding over hundreds of years. The first crossbreds were started by King Charles V of Spain. The crosses were to warmblood horses (NOT the modern versions of the warmblood. Please dont use those modern horses as what I am referring to). Around the 18th century people sought to improve the athletic ability and speed of the horse so they started to add Thoroughbred and finally Arabian(bullfighting was the main reason). This cross has given us some of the most gorgeous horses we know today. As far as them being ancient or apart of the Conquest. That is incorrect. King Charles actually started breeding them so he could have larger parade mounts. The Spanish Jennet (which was actually a type not a breed) were the horses responsible as well as the Barb for the New World breeds. Those two types of horses were exported to the New World before King Charles started crossing the famous Iberian warhorse to warmbloods. If you can find a statue of Alexander the Great and his famous steed Bucephalus you might be surprised to see that Alexander's feet almost seem to be touching the ground(Bucephalus was a Thessalonian horse which was considered apart of the makeup of the eventual Iberian warhorse). The reason for this is that Bucephalus was reportedly only 12HH! A true warhorse cannot be too tall. Too much weight can cause the horse to go lame faster, they do not last as long, they do not posses a comfortable gait where you could last all day traveling on and then do it again the next day, not ambling means that it also causes you and the horse to tire out faster(imagine being forced to ride for hours and hours in a Jeep vs a Mercedes), if an enemy came at you and you were off your large steed then you might need to look for the nearest stump to get on your horse or make a sloppy jump on the horse. The thought that warhorses (especially light calvary) were large horses is a myth. That fact alone also dismisses the PRE and PSL. They cannot gait and they are far too large. The reported standard height for these horses was about 15.2HH. That height would have been considered enormous for back in the day. Personally, I do not like a tall horse. My perfect height is 14.2HH. Which, thankfully, my mare is that height. The Iberian/Barb horses that most American breeds descend from is extinct. You also must keep in mind that Europeans tend to name their horses after which region they come from. The concept of breeds is very much an American idea. So, if you read in text books about "Andalusians", please note that they aren't referring to our modern day PRE or PSL. They are just referring to their horses after which region they got them from. I hope that answered your question some. I have a bad habit of not writing very clearly. |
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Post by nrly on Jun 18, 2008 15:36:43 GMT -5
yep it was answered thank you.
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Post by spanishsagegrullas on Jun 18, 2008 17:48:54 GMT -5
Michelle, I am wondering how long you have been involved in Kigers? When I first emailed you three, maybe four years ago now, that being 2004 or 2005, I only found out about you through JP. I was talking to him, and he mentioned that there was a gal named Clark in Texas who crossed her Kigers to his Lusitanos.
Since I never heard of you, but I had heard of Karen Clark, I emailed her. I think that is how I first learned of you. I had been reading the message boards and keeping in touch with things that were going on for at least five years prior to that.
I would be interested to hear what you tried, which was unsuccessful, so we make sure that in efforts for promotion, exhibition, and showing, we are not trying to reinvent the wheel and waste time on efforts that have already proven unfruitful.
Diane P.
Spanish Sage Ranch
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and I recognized one of the other foals, Sycha's colt, I believe belongs to Michelle. 
