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Post by mystickiger on May 18, 2012 20:58:45 GMT -5
Interesting and educational thread! As I read previous to this afternoon's responses, my guess when I read Michelle's direction to you, and particularily the video, was that your mare would do one of two things: drop her shoulder and run you over or kick at you. I honestly thought she would drop the shoulder which I believe to be the lesser of the the two evils. Regardless, trying to do this without a ground person at the time is difficult as timing is everything. Michelle is absolutely right on with her advice. Ideally finding someone to help you in person is obviously best but in the meantime video training has become popular for those without access to good help.
The advice I really wanted to offer is please do not make this personal. When you say you're going to do this to piss her off... I totaly understand. But you and Dollie are much better served if you do it because it's right. Believe me, as the owner of a very intelligent mare who wrote the book on "Life According to Me" if you make it personal you will always bicker. Remove yourself and think of her as someone elses horse. Then you may command the respect you are deserving of.
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Post by gotkiger on May 18, 2012 23:37:11 GMT -5
In some ways you were right on both accounts. She did attempt to run me over and she did kick me. But when she tried to run me over she got smacked with the rope and not lightly either so she did back off a little there. When she kicked me she got kicked by me in return. She then tried to turn and bolt but somehow I kept hold of the rope and the situation, and in turn met her challenge and came out slightly less worse for wear.
At this point Dollie has ZERO respect for me and my space. Anything I do is going to piss her off to some degree. She has gotten her way for way too long and now I am paying the price for my mistakes and the mistakes of her previous owners and handlers. I try to find the good in bad situations. So while yes, Dollie did kick me today, it taught me that I truly don't know this horse as well as I thought. And that she really doesn't have any respect for me.
If there is a way to do any and all of this without pissing her off then I would do it. But as today showed it seems unlikely.
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Post by citykid on May 19, 2012 9:23:19 GMT -5
With all that has happened with Dollie, I hope you know she is going to turn out to be the best horse you ever will own...and probably a best friend too.
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Post by DianneC on May 19, 2012 10:22:23 GMT -5
If its any use, horses love having a leader they can respect and trust. When I was training Smoke I was pretty timid. He could do four foot shies before I knew he was going to move. Once I got a saddle that helped I got assertive and it was as if he relaxed. Just as the first horse on a trail watches for danger and the rest feel free to see if they can grab a snack. On the ground I find my posture helps a lot, head high, shoulders square and hips pushing when assertive and turning away and dropping the inside shoulder when softening. That being said, I have as much to learn as you do, and am enjoying this thread immensely. Thanks to both of you for sharing this.
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Post by angelsdream on May 19, 2012 10:55:54 GMT -5
Very good thread for sure! I see this all the time with mostly woman who feel they need to baby and love in order to get the horse to love them and it's the total opposite. Horses will want to be with you if you are a good leader. It's very sad that some people don't ever see what they are doing and try to get help. It's totally the owners fault and the sad part is the horse gets all the blame and gets a bad rap. Sara, great job on looking for help and actually working at changing. I do see some people try to get help but when it becomes work and not all fun, they quit. It does get worse before it gets better but let me assure you, you and dolly will build an amazing relationship thru this and will become an amazing team. You will have a dream horse then but people just have to put the work in it. And most don't want to.
Thanks Michelle for taking the time to help her also. I think this will benefit many!
I'm a huge believer in respect on the ground first and foremost before you ever start riding. Get in there mind first.
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Post by gotkiger on May 19, 2012 16:00:13 GMT -5
Thank you. The sad part is is that i didn't realize I was babying her. The young filly I sold a while back gave me the respect and so does Frodo. But Yesterday was a huge brain working day for me. I went in and worked with Frodo and realized that with him i demand a different level of space and respect. I started thinking to myself "well maybe it is just because he is a stallion and a yearling"... I wish. I realized that I don't get it from Dollie and I want it from him from the beginning. That needs to change.
I worked with Dollie and the bucket again this morning and she came up right away like usual but a little more timid. Still because she got too close i chased her off and she went running back to her corner and didnt come back out for about 15 min after I had gotten into my truck and driven away and fed Frodo down the road. I know she will get over it and she needs this but it is hard not to go and try to comfort her. I tried to pet her yesterday when she was being very quiet and staying out of my space but she just kept moving off and staying out of reach. I got one pet in but stopped and didnt push the matter as she was very tence
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Post by Michelle Clarke on May 19, 2012 22:23:26 GMT -5
Tough days for you guys. Dollie does not want you attention because she is not calling the shots and it's not on her terms. Don't worry about petting her right now; that will come and it will mean more to both of you .
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zhiaral
Weanling
Dusk & Dam
Posts: 82 
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Post by zhiaral on May 19, 2012 22:29:05 GMT -5
Dusk just got a little lesson in manners, too - she knows she is supposed to stay back when I bring her feed in, and that she isn't allowed to eat until I set the bin down and walk away. This evening, she came charging up and grabbed at a mouthful of hay as soon as I came into her paddock. So I just spent fifteen minutes chasing her around on very sore knees (mine, not hers!) - with snotty behavior from her the entire time - until she put her head down and said she'd had enough. Then another fifteen doing ropeless leading and yielding practice until she stopped noticing her feed bin when we walked by it and was only paying attention to what she was supposed to be doing (I forgave her momentary distraction when the barking dog ran by). When we got done, she kept her ears up and waited for me to leave before she started eating. Maybe I've been being too lax with my filly, as well. Hopefully she'll have gotten the message... my knees aren't going to hold up to very many more episodes like that.
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Post by gotkiger on May 19, 2012 22:38:39 GMT -5
Good for you. I'm glad to see that this is helping you as well.
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Post by michelle77 on May 20, 2012 20:52:11 GMT -5
Must be something in the water, because my stallion kicked me yesterday over his food. This horse has never so much as lifted a foot in my direction, however he does nip at me only at feeding time which I have been putting an end to so I guess he decided to up the ante. This just goes to show you should never let your guard down or ignore bad behavior because it never ends up good. So after being kicked by a 17+ hand warm-blood in the hip and midsection, I had to pick myself up off the ground go get his halter and lead and then make him move with no break for an hour and a half. He was covered from head to toe in sweat and almost fell when he tripped. At that time I let him go and went over and removed all his food and dumped out his water all but enough to get one little drink. I did not feed him till that nigh, I just let him think about it, and for anyone who thinks they do not know and so that was pointless, you have no clue, horses are very smart and are fully capable of understanding. That nigh when I went back out to feed him he was waiting at the fence with a very concerned look and let a little nicker to me, but this time I had my whip and all I did was pointed it at him and he walked away hanging his head with almost a depressed look and went and hid behind the tree, and watched me the entire time but did not dare come over. For him this is a huge difference he usually stand at the fence flinging his head around and drooling like a ravenous dog, so I think he gets the point. So I completely understand how you feel, I have owned my stallion since he was a baby and I just love him, as all us women tend to do our best traits are also our worst sometimes. Carbons bad behavior is when food is involved but unfortunately it took me getting kicked to realize the problem is me ignoring the fact that he clearly sees himself a the dominant one. So time for that to change and if I can't fix it he will have to be gelded and sold  |
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Post by gotkiger on May 20, 2012 22:39:43 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear that. I how that you are able to fix the issue and keep him.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on May 21, 2012 5:52:02 GMT -5
Sara...let me know is you are able to set up a pen or not so I can get the next video filmed.
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Post by gotkiger on May 21, 2012 9:57:51 GMT -5
I won't have the funds to build a round pen until October or December but I have a smaller pen that I can probably cut in half that is about 30-40x100. I'm not are if that is too small or not. Right now I do a lot of on line work. Let me know if 30-40 is too small
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Post by gotkiger on May 21, 2012 9:59:50 GMT -5
Frodo leaves in two weeks so I can use his corral but it is still pretty big but I might be able to put up ropes to see if she will respect them as a fence like Frodo did
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Post by sbutter on May 21, 2012 11:35:01 GMT -5
Love this thread!  I tried the leading exercise on a client's TB mare that we are currently trying to find a home for. She is a more relaxed TB so she isn't hyper or oversensitive, but she has been on the track, so she is used to moving forward. On her turns, she tends to move like a bus. She has a hard time stopping her hind end and just moving her shoulders over. She will stop for the transition turn around, but as she starts to turn, her hind legs take several steps in order to make the turn. She loves to stop and she will back up when asked, but she only has one speed for backing up. She seems to only know how to use that hind end for forward momentum. You are doing great Sara and I am glad you are sticking with it  Just be careful if you do go the rope route for an enclosure. She could actually strangle herself if she hangs her head (at an angle to the rope) over and tries to bring it back under the rope. Make sure you can easily get it undone or that it would break if a lot of pressure were suddenly applied. I look forward to more videos and discussions! |
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I tried the leading exercise on a client's TB mare that we are currently trying to find a home for. She is a more relaxed TB so she isn't hyper or oversensitive, but she has been on the track, so she is used to moving forward. On her turns, she tends to move like a bus. She has a hard time stopping her hind end and just moving her shoulders over. She will stop for the transition turn around, but as she starts to turn, her hind legs take several steps in order to make the turn. She loves to stop and she will back up when asked, but she only has one speed for backing up. She seems to only know how to use that hind end for forward momentum.
Just be careful if you do go the rope route for an enclosure. She could actually strangle herself if she hangs her head (at an angle to the rope) over and tries to bring it back under the rope. Make sure you can easily get it undone or that it would break if a lot of pressure were suddenly applied.