Vet Visit After Foaling

[gotkiger]

I am at a loss here. These horses foal on their own in the wild all the time but as soon as we bring them into our barns we are supposed to call out the vet when they foal. How many of you call out the vet for a normal complication free delivery?

[DianneC]

I think it depends on your experience with foaling. I had a "well baby check" for my first few and it was a good idea. Nothing was ever wrong but I learned tons. Main thing is to treat the umbilical cord, make sure it nurses within six hours and passes the meconium (the first stool). Its always good to have a relationship with a great vet before any thing goes wrong and this can be one of those times to get to know them. Michele put up a great post with tons of links on the top of the Foals subject.

[gotkiger]

Thanks I will go look there

[fantasykiger]

I did well day after vet checks in the begining as well, saved the placenta make sure it looked normal and none was retained by the mare, until I was educated enough to know what I was looking at. The vet was wonderful at educating me on what he was looking for on his visits and early signs there could be an issue of concern.
In the wild there is surely foal loss we are unaware of, it is dreadfully sad to loose a foal if it can be prevented by early detection.

[sbutter]

Another precaution to take would be to check the mare's temp daily for about a week after she foals. We had a case years ago where it was a tough delivery, but everything seemed normal afterward. The mare was a little ouchie, so we treated her for that, but turned out she had a tear on the inside and became septic. We were in communication with the vet prior, but since the mare was always fine and happy (great appetite) after her meds, we didn't realize how serious she really was. We couldn't save her in time, but after that experience, we made temp checks mandatory.

[gotkiger]

I live on a dairy so I have access to all the medical instruments necessary (gloves, lubes, thermometers, clamps ect...) If there is a problem it will take at least an hour for the equine vet to get here. I have done as much research as possible and have everything set to assist if necessary. My husband and I have assisted many cows is difficult deleveries. While yes I know they are differnt from horses I think repositioning if necessary will be similar.

[barbhorses]

Just be sure to NEVER EVER use the chains that you use to help cows deliver! You will critically harm the mare and foal doing so!

Cows can recover from a retained placenta with no problems (normally), a horse will die if not helped almost immediately. I am not sure if you know that or not, but I figured better be safe than regret not saying this and assume you already know. A really informative book is Blessed are the Broodmares. Many times help from the vet comes too late (even when they are close). This book has many reviews of mare owners saying that it helped them save their mares and foals. Also, be sure if you see a red bag that you cut it open and try to get the foal out ASAP along with the mares contractions. If you pull without contractions you risk tearing the uterine wall. Red bag delivery = blood supply from the mare is cut off and therefore the foal only has a short amount of time before the foal suffocates. The foal cannot breath until his rib cage is cleared from the mare.

[gotkiger]

I hate to even see them use the chains on the calves and I did know not to use them on a foal, but thank you for saying something not all people know how much more delicate horses are than cows. I have done as much research on checking the placenta and red bag deleveries as I think is humanly possible (heck I think I grossed out my husband with a few of the videos that I watched over and over to make sure I was learning everything I could, and taking notes). I have about 6-7 books at the house that I have read a few times in order to learn as much as possible. I have consulted a few vets and local breeders to learn as much information as they can give me as well as my mares previous owner who had bred her once before. I know of three mares due to foal in a 30 day period and of course mine is the first so i dont get to "practice" watching another mare go through the stages in person. I have started to document my mare by taking pictures (both sides, head on and butt shot (with and without her tail in the way), and a few udder shots) and her temp twice a day so i can study all the info when I take it back to the computer to input it into my logs. What better way to learn then through experience itself, eventhough it can be nerve-racking and scary. I love that my mare could care less with what I am doing to her ... as long as she gets brushed and some lovin and maybe an apple or something out of it, I could probably breed her AI out in pasture and she wouldnt care.

[Michelle Clarke]

Sounds like you are very prepared...!! Right now on our Daily Blog, I have pages up for each mare with pictures of side shots plus udder shots explaining what is going on for the most part. In the top right menus, the Foal Watch page has some info on it, then links to all the mares due in order. Right now we are watching Mari and Leza is not far behind.

ranchobayo.wordpress.com/

On my old proboards, there are lots of picts from previous years of the mares showing how they shaped up...I don't use that anymore due to starting the Blog, but there are a few good years in there (2008/2009):

ranchobayo.proboards.com/index.cgi#general

There is also a group on line called Mare Stare. You can learn a lot (and a lot what NOT to do!) and the "aunties" are pretty knowledgable, so the you can learn a lot from the threads. You can watch them live or they are recorded and posted in a separate area (under 2011 Nursery). This will give you the best idea of what is normal and what is not. WARNING: it can be addictive and cause sleep deprivation!!!

latigo.marestare.com/forum/index.php?board=6.0

One of my biggest lessons I learned over the years is that when a mare shows signs of labor (maybe gets down and even rolls a lot) but no foal - there is a positioning issue with the foal. I take the mare out and stand her on a hill, facing downward, so the foal will slip all the way back in and things can start over. Usually that does it.

One other thing is that since I put my mares on an all natural diet with no processed anything - they have all foaled text book with only a few exceptions...

Udder development (starting about 30 days out)
Calcium crystals
Plugs pushed out of nitties
Wax
Skim milk
Opaque milk

Of course I am super annal and check them in the morning, after they come in and before bedtime. Plus I watch them basically all day for changes, so I get to see a lot. I've even seen the mucus plug expelled before...most of the mares I can milk and I used to do ph and calcium tests on them, but since everyone shapes up so well, I can get pretty close without them.

Oh and I do let me repro vet know when we are begining foaling so she can be on guard if I need her. Most things I can do with over the phone coaching if needed. Experience is the biggest teacher and since you have some with the cows, you're ahead of the game. Instead of chains, you can use soft braided ropes. I've never had to and my opinion is, if the foal is malpositioned and is having issue coming out - you need to get your hands in there and feel for the problem and fix it up so the birth can happen without trauma. The book that was mentioned is EXCELLENT in that department and will help you learn to palpate and know what you are feeling and how to easily fix it.

Over the last nine years and 40 some foals, I have only had one malpositioned. This is mainly due to the fact I give my mares exercise and don't lock them up in a stall weeks before they foal like so many places due - you'd be surprised. They need to move so inertia can get they foal into position. I also feed apple cider vinegar (about 1-2 ounces a day) which is high in potassium - which is what is needed for easy births. Potassium deficiency causes blood vessel restriction, especially in the limbs and the cervix and uterus during the last stages of pregnancy. Dystokia is the result.

[gotkiger]

Thanks for all the info.

Being the only one who will handle her it is rather difficult to get out there and work her as I am about 9 weeks out from delevery myself. As soon as she sees the halter she goes bonkers with excitement and is bouncing and running all over the place, not the best place for me to be. I know she wants to get out and work but I dont want to risk myself getting hurt (I was kicked in the abdomen at the beginning of my pregnancy by a diferent horse). i also dont have a round pen to work her in it all has to be done on a lunge line in front of her corral or out in pasture. I would venture to say her corral is about 76 x 90 (dirt not grass) so she is not lacking space to move. And that is where she will foal as well. I had her out in pasture for a long time but over the winter I moved her to the corral to give her some shelter from the rain since there isnt any out in the pasture just trees for shade. I tried to put her back out so she could pasture feed until the foal but even with 20 min of pasture time she had "old faithful" shooting out of her rear end for two days. I didnt think that was too good for the foal so i stopped putting her out until after the foal is born (I hope that was the right thing to do).

[DianneC]

Be sure a foal can't get under the bottom of the fence. Its so easy for them to lay down next to a pole corral and get up on the wrong side.

[gotkiger]

oh yeah that is a big concern of mine as the gates are high. We have cable fencing from about 6in off the ground and the top pole is about 5 feet high but the gates the bottom pole is about two feet off the ground and we have had a few cows get out because they have laid down next to the gate and got up on the wrong side, lol stupid cows. I am thinking of putting chicken wire on the gates down to be dragging on the ground, so if the foal lays down next to the gate it cant, or has a harder time slipping underneath

[DianneC]

Yes, that's a good idea. Just something they can't get a foot caught in. I put up no climb as the holes are bigger and put it all around the paddock. Cedar was three weeks early and Lark went through the fence the first day until I got the wire up. I had it all planned, but was surprised at how early she was.

[gotkiger]

That is probably the one thing I am scared of... Dollie going early. She is about 2-3 weeks out now and she really slowed down today (didnt want to drag me to the pasture for a bite then back to her corral). And when I was checking her udders this afternoon I was feeling how firm they were and she squirt a clear yellow tinted liquid. I went to check the other one and a drop came out so I am guessing it is a pre-colostrum. Will being bred to a larger stallion cause her to foal earlier or later than the normal 340 days?

[DianneC]

It seems to be a mare thing, at least with mine. Cedar was almost always early, although once she was bred to a different stallion and was more on time. They know when the time is right though, even the earliest one, Lark, was well developed and had no trouble. My other mares were pretty much on time when bred to my stallion. I think I've heard Michelle comment on that too from seeing her mares foal and their timing by who the mare is.
There is a product called Fast Track that I've used for helping horses adjust to grass or a different hay, like alfalfa. You always want to introduce it slowly but having the extra organisms to help digest it seems to help a lot. Its really good if they have to be on antibiotics too.