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Post by lindaf on Mar 19, 2008 13:52:25 GMT -5
We have purchased 20 acres of grassland that needs developing into a place for 5 horses. Although I had planned taking several years to do this, I may be losing my boarding option and really need to get to work making some decisions. This is the first time I have developed horse property, so I am open to any suggestions! We have a modest budget to do this and will probably have to do it is stages. There are electric lines nearby and a water well on the property. I'll list some of the questions I have. 1. What is the best choice for fencing for the perimeter of a 20-acre property? I need as economical an option as possible that will still be acceptably safe for occasional daylight turn out. (I know the horror stories about wire and T-posts, but see that all the ranches around here use barbed wire for their larger pastures.) 2. I want to fence 5 acres in horse-proof, horse-safe, sturdy fencing. This will be their primary enclosure for turn out. The first quote was $13/linear foot for pipe fencing  which is my first choice. However, I belive that may be cost prohibitive for us. Any suggestions? 3. I would like 4 or 5 pens/paddocks with run-in sheds. What is a reasonable size for them to be able to run and get plenty of exercise? Where I board, the pens are about 120' x 100'. 4. Do you think I can use something less sturdy/less expensive than pipe for these pens? 5. I'm looking into a 6-stall metal barn. One stall would be an enclosed tack room. I first considered a shed row barn, but was told that an enclosed 6-stall barn would be less that 2 3-stall row barns in the shape of an L. Any suggestions? 6. If I had to move the horses on short notice from their boarding facility, what would be the minimum set up that would keep them safe until permanent fencing, etc. could be put up? I'm thinking stock panels. This is West Texas, so the land is flat (slight slope north to south, about 30 feet over 2700 feet) and open, a blank slate so to speak. If you were starting from scratch on a rectangular piece of property twice as long (north-south) as it is wide (east-west) about 2700 feet by 1350 feet, 20-acres, how would you go about it? I appreciate comments on any or all questions. Thanks everyone, Linda F |
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Post by zephyrcreek on Mar 19, 2008 15:52:13 GMT -5
Hi Linda, Through trial and error, my favorite fencing is electric rope from Premier Fencing. They have a few different price categories I have have installed each, and have had no issues. I love, love, love this fence! I used a solar fencer so I do not have to worry about electric outages (possible problem here in Michigan). I have a 36 X 12 run in shed that is fenced in with just less than 2 acres. This is where my horses spend the winter and any major muddy/wet times of the year. In the summer I can open these gates into the larger pasture. Reasons I love this fencing 1. The cost cannot be beat. Plus the extras they carry make everything so easy to install. 2. Ease of installation. Simple for one person to do. 3. Four strands will keep most horses, foals, and even small ponies in even if you forget to turn the electric fencer back on  . Bettye Roberts uses the same fencing with her studs and loves it. 4. I use the black and white striped rope (about the thickness of your small finger). Because of the two colors it is very visible night or day (or snow season for us). 5. Safety. I have had a horse hit the fence at full speed without a scratch. My fence is installed with the springs that premier recommends at each end which allows it to take an impact without being severe like a wire fence would be. When I have the $$$ to complete my fencing I will have a 4 strand perimeter fence around my entire property. I will set it up so that it can be electrified if needed, but not necessary. I will also have multiple size runs/pastures on the inside. Remember that 2 acres per horses is usually the recommended pasture space depending on area. The quickest and easiest safe area in a pinch would be a round post at each corner and at the "gate" area with T-posts in between. Make sure you use T-post covers and the longest T-post you can get. I think most people that get into trouble with T-post do not have covers or the posts are only out of the ground 4-4.5 feet. I prefer the 7' -7.5' post that are sunk into the ground 1.5'. Then throw up 3-4 strands of heavy duty electric fencing (Wide tape or some type of rope.) |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Mar 19, 2008 20:54:35 GMT -5
Linda, the rope electric fencing is your best option for the 5 acre pen for sure. The good thing about that also is you don't have to use t-posts every four feet, you can do wood posts every 50 feet. Good advice also on t-post height....chest height is BAD for horses. Not only can they hurt themselves easier, but once they can get a head over, they are going through it! We had the fence replaced last year in the stud colt pasture and I wanted 6' total height and the guy actually argued with me that it was a waste of money.
The 20 acre perimeter fence you could do in slick wire. I know alot of folks don't like it, but we use it alot and it is ecnomical. The horses don't mess with it, especially if you have a hot wire line. Low maintenance, just tighten it once a year or as needed.
Stock panels are good and have lots of uses when you have them on hand. We use them for everything and once you get your permanent setup, you can make a nice roundpen! Panels never go to waste on a ranch! Being in west texas, short term you can just make sure your pens have some trees for shade and they will be okay until you get run-ins up. You can setup small pens around a tree, then turn them in the 5 acres when you want....or just keep them in the pasture and bring them in pens as needed.
One of the biggest things is to know where your flood planes are and keep your temporary pens in an area that will get the least mud. It is a bummer to have to move everything!
How exciting!
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Post by lindaf on Mar 19, 2008 21:44:31 GMT -5
Yes, this is exciting but ovewhelming. Thank you for the advice. I'm glad to hear about the electric rope fencing. I think maybe we can do this!
Forgive me for chuckling at a couple of comments. The first is zephyrcreek's reminder about 2 acres of pasture per horse. We don't have green grass pastures here, seriously. <G>.Maybe for 4 weeks in the spring there is green grass, then it dies and turns brown. Most horses are on dry lot and fed hay and pelleted feed. It's a whole other world from lush Michigan.
The other is Michelle's comment about trees. Ain't got those either! LOL And it rarely rains (13"/year), so there is virtually no runofff. The total absence of trees is the reason that after fencing, the sheds are the next priority otherwise its full sun all day. The ranch horses around here are totally out in the elements 24/7 365 days a year with no shelter at all, but that's not what I want for my guys.
I do plan to have a base laid down for the barn that will elevate it above the ground level. One barn guy recommended against concrete flooring in favor of a good base and stall mats.
There are some panels on sale pretty cheaply right now ($40), but do you think it would be wiser to invest in ones I know are high quality since they are so versatile and will be used for a long time.
Again, thank you for sharing your experiences.
Linda
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Mar 20, 2008 7:59:19 GMT -5
Linda, I have both some cheap panels and some good ones. The cheap ones lasted about 5 years and even within that they slowly died off! I only have a few left and I could not even weld up wire panels to them this year for the foal pen....it just burned right through. We have some heavy duty pipe panels that have lasted the 5 years without replacing any except maybe welding a hinge on a gate or two....that could have been prevented with a squirt of WD40 once a year! The we have some high $$ panels from Preifert, but those are for the main roundpen so they only occasionally get trashed for a horse in training that decides to exit stage right!
The pipe panels are the best for the money (heavy though, the 5.5' ones are a couple hundred pounds each and the 6' ones are really heavy...but they last). I belive we paid $60/each about 6 years ago. We have 50 of them and they are going strong. I think the pipe is just under 2". They did not have a locking attachement, just kind of slips right in, so I take chain and where the joints are wrap diagonal and secure to itself so if they are hit they won't pop out and hurt someone or a horse. We had a stallion that would pop out the bottom one and crawl underneath it!
Just do what you can do. The cheap ones will eventually need replacing, but they are not bad to get you started. And really, unless you got broncs, a roundpen does not need to be heavy duty, just safe for you and the horse.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Mar 20, 2008 8:00:58 GMT -5
oh, crushed or decomposed granite is a great base....for stalls, for aisle ways, etc. We use sand in our stalls and pens because I HATE shavings!
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Post by DianneC on Mar 20, 2008 9:47:22 GMT -5
We had the same set up that Ellen suggested in Chehalis and I loved it. The big round posts were 50 feet apart with four strand rope. It had 2x2"x4 foot spacers every 15' to keep the wires separated. I think you could do without the spacers if you had the springs as suggested. The spacers also had the disadvantage that if a horse hit it hard the fence would lay down as a unit then spring back up - not what you want.
Since you get sun and wind be sure to orient your shelter to that. Do not get panels with rounded tops, they are very dangerous. Think about how a big hay truck would be able to get in and turn around to unload. Frost free underground water lines are a blessing!
If you will have a stallion keep an empty aisle way between him and the mares so they can not touch noses. Girls are as randy as the boys and will back up to the fence and the stallion will take the panels down when trying to mount her. A foaling pen is a great idea with mesh down to the ground so that the foal cannot slip under during birth.
How fun for you!
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Post by zephyrcreek on Mar 20, 2008 14:36:56 GMT -5
One of the things I did not mention is the the rope fence from Premier only needs posts every 24 feet (if I remember correctly). I have wood posts every 12 feet in my sacrifice area. In my larger pasture I have wood posts in the corners and T-posts every 20 feet. Even when I did have a horse hit the fence (looong story that was all MY fault lol), the fence did not go down, but worked as a spring so that neither the horse of the fence was damaged. I think one of my insulators broke, but it was one of the cheap farm store ones, not the premier insulators. I have since replaced most of them with the good ones. I have learned the hard way that in the long run you actually save money buying the good stuff the first time around. Yes we are lucky to have some lush pastures in Michigan, for a couple of months before the snow hits ;D. The other reason they recommend the 2 acres is for parasite and manure control. I have the acreage, just not the time or money to get everything fenced in yet. As with everything that is worth while, one thing at a time.  Ellen |
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Post by lindaf on Mar 20, 2008 15:40:53 GMT -5
OK, crushed granite for the base........, no rounded corners on the panels (to avoid catching feet or legs)......, springs on the rope fence......, 7'-7.5' T-post with caps....., modestly prices panels are OK for the round pen and in the short term.
* Do you recommend a base in the run-in sheds or is just the dirt OK
* Any tips for manure management? Anybody use fly control in their feed or the parasitic control you release?
I think I've decided to put the barn farther down on the list and concentrate on fencing and the sheds. I don't think we had to bring the horses inside even 20 times last year. They fuzz up really well and have blankets for the rare extreme conditions.
*What about one of the portable metal buildings for a tack room?
* I think I will have a big light pole installed to flood the pen area if I need to do things at night.
I will not live on this property (We live in town about 10 miles away.) Does this change your recommendations especially in regards to the fencing?
* Does anyone have a web cam? I'm thinking about that too since I won't live on site.
Thanks again,
Linda
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Post by zephyrcreek on Mar 20, 2008 17:22:01 GMT -5
I would recommend a base in the run-in sheds and immediately around them. Of coarse this depends on your soil, and can always be added later. I did not have the $$$ to complete mine yet, and my temp fix was to bring in about 8 inches of sand with rubber mats on top. Eventually I will replace with a nice solid rock base with mats on top, but not right now.
I did release predator flies last year, and I was happy with the results. Other horse people in our area have told me that every year it gets better as some of the previous years predator flies will make it through the winter. I just wish they worked on our big B52's! I have talked to a few people they also use the feed control, and are very pleased.
Manure, I compost all my manure. I talked about this in another post. I use windrows and flip the windrow once a month through the summer and fall. I also have to water the pile through dry spells. It works well for me though as we have a new house, and the yard really needs to be amended. Plus I have a wonderful garden!!
I built a 36' X 12' shed/barn. It has three 12X12 stalls. The two end stalls are open on the east where I have my sacrifice pasture. The center stall has a 6' wide door on the west side. I use this area to store square bales in the winter, and still have enough room for basic supplies like halters, pitchfork, shovels, and a large rubber tote with misc. tools. One day I will have my big barn, but this works so well for me that I am not in a hurry.
Ellen
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Post by fantasykiger on Mar 21, 2008 13:21:32 GMT -5
Web cams are great if you do not live on site.
For perimter fence we use feild fencing actually it has smaller squares at the bottom that gradually get larger towards the top. We had to put in this type of fencing when we lost livestock/pets to stray dogs. With the increase in coyotes congregating out behind our property on BLM, it keeps the critters out.
I don't know much about cost wish I could help you out there, but I left that stuff up to the hubby..LOL.
I see no reason why a metal shed would not work for a tack/grain shed make sure you have a nice lock on it as well. Those stand up poll lights are very nice and bright, the ones on wheels (like the guys use in a garage working on cars) can be moved around to where you need em' with a good extention cord, then put away in your shed. My neighbor used them alot for when she worked late and had to tend to horses after dark until she got lighting put in and on her barn.
Everyone here has given' you such great ideas. I may use some as well my big barn is still a work in progress.
In regards to panels you can never have to many, I myself prefer light 12ft horse panels. because I am just 5'2 and not strong as an ox..LOL. I am always moving and rearranging panels, these can be moved about easily be me alone. Yeah they can be kicked and dented up a bit as well, but my horses are pretty much settled at this point. I own no studs to hold in, so they work great and the chain attachment (a must) the best for uneven ground and ease of use.
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Post by citykid on Mar 21, 2008 18:00:24 GMT -5
Might want to read Paddock Paradise by Jamie Jackson....
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Post by citykid on Mar 21, 2008 18:05:37 GMT -5
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Post by lindaf on Mar 21, 2008 18:21:58 GMT -5
Ellen, Now that you mention it, I have read about parasite management requiring adequate space for each horse. I will plan on using the predator flies. I'll go back and find your earlier posts on manure management. Tiffany, I hadn't thought about one of the portable lights. They are really bright. There are some that are generator powered making them more portable. I will order a bunch of panels, too. I think I'll get the medium weight. They will be used for the round pen and the remaining ones will be ready for things that are bound to come up. My horses aren't rambunctious, so I don't forsee them beating the panels up too much. I have talked to 3 construction companies and my ideas are starting to take form. Our weather is not extreme and it rarely rains, so I don't need heavy duty shelter. I first thought I wanted two shed row barns in an L-shape, but learned that an enclosed barn is more cost effective. What I'm leaning toward is a 6-stall barn, one stall being a tack room. The alley will be open at the ends for ventilation because our problem is extreme summer heat rather than winter cold. Outside, across one end of the barn will be a 20' deep covered area where a small tractor or trailer can be pulled under, the horses can be washed, etc. The one huge luxury I will not get is a restroom.  It's a big temptation, though, because I found out one of the contractor's families does plumbing and septic work. When you don't live on site, a RR would really come in handy! I want to thank eveyone of the imput. Now I need to get out the graph paper and plan the fencing configuration. LindaF |
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Post by lindaf on Mar 21, 2008 18:23:48 GMT -5
citykid, hi. I will go to Amazon and take a look at both books.
Thank you, Linda F
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which is my first choice. However, I belive that may be cost prohibitive for us. Any suggestions?
. Bettye Roberts uses the same fencing with her studs and loves it.
It's a big temptation, though, because I found out one of the contractor's families does plumbing and septic work. When you don't live on site, a RR would really come in handy!