What I have always fed...

[Kimberly]

I feel old school and at times I wish I would change. I have read many posts and I would say I agree..LOL.

OK what do I feed.
I feed grass hay and alfalfa w/ cobb. Pedro gets 1 alfalfa and 2 grass hay/w one coffee can of grain twice daily. Hunny my old paint mare gets 2 grass and 1/2 flake alfalfa w/ small coffee can cobb twice daily.

This is subject to change, depends on what is available or needed..

[nrly]

Jim and I are cutting out the pellets and adding strategy to all our horse's right now Riddle gets 3 lbs of bran and 3 lbs of strategy and Flashy we have also added strategy to her food since she is pregnant, she is up to 1 pound next week we will up it 1/2 a pound. I like what it has done for Riddle in Just the few months he has been on it. And he does not get pellets, just hay 2 times a day and his bran and strategy. I am amazed how good he looks. and flashy is putting that extra where she needs to for the baby so after the foal is born she won't be sucked dry if you know what I mean. I am also basing this all on what Clinton Anderson has said, and my vet.

[Michelle Clarke]

It is great that folks are really trying to learn about equine nutrition and doing the best for thier horses. I have to share what I recently learned about our Kigers and maybe it can help others in making decisions in what they feed them.

A few months ago I attended a terrific holistic nutrition seminar. It brought up alot of questions and I had a nutritionalist and a holistic vet come out to the ranch and get a program for our horses.

Being as Kigers are made to live on sticks and twigs, they CANNOT assimilate all the proccessed stuff that the feed stores like to sell us. Many have EMS (equine metabolic syndrome), this is very common in Spanish horses....in fact, they are the number #2 breed behind ponies.

What they can't have: alfalfa, sweet feed, corn products, treats w/ sugar, more than 1 carrot/day or anything with sugar/molasses or corn (which turns to sugar in the bloodstream).

Symptoms: being what people call "easy keepers". this is a misnomer. Fat pockets over the tail head, neck, shoulders and eyes. Water bellies, water over the hips. Lameness/soreness/stiffness that comes and goes and is hard to pinpoint. Seems that no matter what you feed them, they are fat looking. Even some can be "thinner", but will have those wierd pockets of fat.

Facts about feed: the ingredients on the label does NOT have to be listed in order of amount. This means that you may see corn 6 ingredients down, but in reality, it may be the 1st or 2nd.
When it says 15% protien minimum, it may well be over 20%.
When it says 7% fat maximum, it may mean 0%.
A 50lb. bag of sweet feed has 10 lbs. of water...molasses has to be mixed with water to stick.
Feed companies print all thier bags in one place, then send them out to local mills to be filled. This does mean that the local mill will put in what is the CLOSEST to the ingredients on the bag that they have on hand. We had problems with SafeChoice here (even though it is an award winning Nutrena mill). The pellets changed from bag to bag from hard; soft; crumbly; dark; light; burned; green or brown.
Unless it has a bar code or batch number on the bag, you have NO idea where it came from, when it was made, etc. No way to trace (and hold accountable) the feed company if your horse gets sick or dies.

Unless you feed the recommended amounts to your horse, they are in no way getting all thier vits/mins or balanced ration. If you did feed your horse the recommended amounts, they would all be fat slobs!

Alfalfa throws off the calcium/phos ratio 15 to 1. Most older horses can handle this, but young stock CANNOT. This causes foot issues, leg/bone problems and joint maladies. Many of which will not show up until later in life. OCD's are a problem that are in the womb due to mare nutrition (or lack thereof). This means if the mare has substandard feed, then you already have bone issues before the foal is born and that is for life.

It does not matter what you feed your horse, if they have gut issues and cannot absorb the nutrients, then you are wasting your $$'s.

When we did analysis on our stock, it was odd that they reacted differently to different feeds over other breeds. They are definately unique in thier needs, so make yourself aware of that when you are choosing a feed for our Kigers!

[lindaf]

I didn't know that about 1 carrot a day.

Interestingly, my Norwegian Fjords and Mattie have metabolic similarities. No alfalfa, grain, sweet feeds. Just good grass hay (coastal Bermuda) and Nutrena Lite Balance, but not up to the recommended amount. I also add ground flax seeds.

Michelle, if we can't feed the amount recommended on the bags for metabolic reasons, how do we make sure they are getting all the nutrients they need?

Are there some products you would recommend to cover what they could be missing?

Linda F

[nrly]

wow Stormy got this big ole belly when she was on grass hay here, she is slimming down with the alfalfa. And I make her run everyday in the paddock for about 10 mins. so we both are loosing the belly fat. She is starting to get withers. and she is toning up for sure. I know she will do better once we stop the pellets. but I no longer give her sweet treats, her bran is sweet but it is natural.

[fantasykiger]

I do know from experience with my horses, that alflafa is a big NO-NO for my Fantasy and her BLM Mustang mom, Salsa. For one thing it makes Fantasy edgy and certian fields make her break out in hives and Salsa is the ultimate easy keeper.
So what I always feed ......
Salsa 26yr old Mustang 1 scoop of Horse Guard and the 6 yr old mini horse 1/4 scoop of Horse Guard then just grass hay that is it
Fantasy who is on her last month or so of pregnancy..grass hay 2lbs of Nutrena safe choice 1 scoop Horse Guard
the kids Wickee 3 yr old, Princess 4yr old, Chips 2 yr old are all fed grass hay and 2lbs Nutrenea safe choice 1 scoop Horse Guard
Morgan 26 yr old grass hay and 1lb Nutrenea safe choice 1 scoop Horse Guard 1 flex cookie
Clydesdale 20 yrs old grass hay and 1lb Nutrenea safe choice 1 scoops Horse Guard 2 Flex cookies
That is what my horses are eating as of now on a daily basis. They are brought in every evening for their grain for the day. The amount does change as their needs change of course.

I have always been told when in doubt don't feed em' more grain, feed em' more grass.

[zephyrcreek]

Michelle,

This sounds like one of my mares. I know better than to feed alfalfa or sweet feed to my horses, but I do not know what I should feed. Many of the symptoms you describe sound just like Zuni. She has a high quality grass hay and free choice salt & minerals during the winter, and pasture instead of hay in the summer. This past summer she gained so much weight that I had to restrict her pasture time, and I have seriously been considering putting her in a grazing muzzle this year.

I do not know what to do.

Ellen

[Michelle Clarke]

Linda, you have to add in a vit/min supplement. Some folks really like the Dynomite line, I have never used it myself.

What we have done is have half the horses on ADM www.admani.com/AllianceEquine/; and the other half on Finally www.kamanimalservices.com/Feed/finally-horse-feed.php.

With the ADM, we use the Stay Strong mineral pellets. has all the stuff they need for a full day, including digestive enzymes - a 1,000lb horse gets 1 lb/day. We also use the Natural Glo rice bran nuggets. Some horses get none, some get 1lb/day and we might add more if a horse has a hard workout or needs weight. So far this has worked really well, the horses are looking great - all different breeds, work loads, ages, etc.

The Finally had three formulas, one made specifically for us here in Texas. The young horses get 1lb/day, some of the working horses get 2lbs/day. I have been just THRILLED with this feed, as alot of it is organic ingredients, plus so many more benefits. The Kigers are doing wonderfully on it!

I belive there may be an article on the website in regards to feeding beet pulp, barley and oats....I can look in my notes if anyone is interested. We can't use the beet pulp here because we can't get any without molasses.

[Michelle Clarke]

Ellen, I had so many problems with my Kigers and this EMS thing, it has not been even funny. I know how you feel. Even some of the stuff I was told (like NO grass.....) I won't do. Even though I belive my horses do have a metabolic problem, I also belive the sugars in the grasses are formed in a way they can handle... they seen to react more to the proccessed feeds than the natural stuff...after all they are mustangs and designed to eat the grasses.

I have gone through a whole gut conditioning process with Desi, Rev and Charro. I am sold on the program and want to do most of the horses here, but it will be a slow process due to the $$ and the amount of horses. Now, some of the horses (pure Kigers) are on the Finally without the gut conditioning and they look so much better, but I still see where I will need to do the program with them. They have lost all those fat guts, water over the hips and some of the other symptoms. I also have some purebreds on the ADM and they look real good too. It will be interesting when I switch them over to the Finally to compare then when I do the gut program the changes there also.

You are more than welcome to give me a call and chat about what it all entails and details if you wish. Sounds like your mare may be a good candidate. 512.868.7638.

[lwood92]

I am very happy with how my horses have been doing on the new feeds that Michelle has mentioned. Most of the differences I see are in my QHs. Cici started training in December and it seemed like we went over the same thing over and over again and she never really progressed plus she looked pregnant at 2 yo! After we switched to the AMD, not only did she slim down, she had a mind and she has progressed so much in her training. We haven't done the gut conditioning on her yet. I know we will see some more changes when we do.

Morgan is on the Finally and she has changed a great deal too. She still has a big baby belly, but the rest of her has slimmed down so much. She looks great. Here are some pictures of her before and after.

This is Morgan before Jan. 16.


This is Morgan after Feb. 11

[nrly]

wow big change in your Morgan. Michelle, I looked into those sites and for now it isn't available here in Mesa, but I did like what I read, And Strategy seems to be working. I will get the other 3 horse's on it.

[DianneC]

Now that's a testimony! If they had a halter class for pregnant mares she would win. So which pellets do you use with the Natural Glo and the Stay Strong?

[lindaf]

Great work on the transformation of Morgan!

I appreciate learning about everyone's experiences. It helps to have suggestions since there are SO many products available.

Linda

[nrly]

so true Linda, I can not get over Riddle's look since he is on Strategy AX,.

[nrly]

here is my question and I hope it can be answered.
captive raised Kigers do they tend to have the metabolism problem with feed as those out in the range.... I am just wondering...