Last chance for Rio Canyon

[DianneC]

Just got a call from Rio's owner that he's made an appointment for next Tuesday to have Rio gelded. I think it would take $4,000 to buy him. His owner was asking $5200 and said he'd come down a bit, to make him an offer. Maybe we could get a group together to own him? If we have interest we can push the gelding out until we get the money together.
This is Chinook and Calista's colt. I can see both Charro (Geronimo) ad Chinook in him. Really athletic and quite the hunk.



With a 6'3" trainer on him

[Michelle Clarke]

How old is he and how tall do you estimate? Any current videos around of him?

[DianneC]

I think he's about 15+ hands, he looks short cause the guy was so tall. Here is the scoop.
He was born in 2003 so he'll be seven this summer. There are a couple of albums on him in my webshots photo albums. One is of him from birth to 3 years at pets.webshots.com/album/76953022iatfzx the other is of him in training at five years pets.webshots.com/album/562596379iPTGhw
This is a foal that I sold as a weanling. I had a hard time deciding between keeping him or keeping Bravo. Should have kept them both.
He is registered with KMA 0511P. Training has been two one month sessions with the trainer above and previous ground work with another trainer and early saddle work with that trainer (I'll check on the name). Probably only a month or two each time. He did really well in his ground work but not his early saddle work. I told them that they needed to check saddle fit. The trainer had an assistant riding him so who knows. He was trying to rub her off on the arena wall and so she quit. Then he did a month with the guy in the pictures at four and another month with the same guy when he was five. The trainer seemed pretty reasonable to me Leslie, had to "get 'er done" since he only had one month. I took these pictures after he had been there less than a week the second time and he was doing really well. No videos though.
These folks have never bred him, they've kept him separate from the other horses and were afraid to ride him around mares. Wife was afraid to feed him but she's not a horse person. Owner does some back country riding a couple time a year and has never taken him in case they ran into mares. Owner's had some surgery recently. The plan to geld him is so he can be with the other horses. They love him but haven't done anything with him. He was biteing at one point when he was young, didn't see any sign of that thought at all in training when we were there. Kevin and Lisa were there when I took the training photos and promptly fell in love. Gorgeous hunk of a stallion, very focused on the girls. Needs consistent work and could do just about anything I think.

[DianneC]

Here is a couple with the 6'3" trainer standing next to him and one next to the fence.
Between the halter ride and the snaffle bit rides

Talking after the ride


Visiting after he was through


The trainer hosed down his lower body before the ride because he still had a lot of hair on him and he didn't want him to overheat.

[DianneC]

Hmmm, my own computer is in the shop and am using my brothers. I was pretty sure he was five here but one of the webshots photos says he was four at this training. I'll have to double check that.
Michelle, I think that Calista and Chinook were always a great match. It seems to me that their foals are more balanced front end to back end than Chinook, but with more substance than Calista.

[kigermustang1]

Can someone post his pedigree?

[kimk]

Personally, Dianne ( and absolutely no offense intended ) I think he would make a great gelding. Can't keep 'em all stallions, and God knows this breed needs more great geldings!

[DianneC]

Kim If he was an average stallion I'd agree, goodness knows I've gelded plenty. And yes, if they were going to do something with him besides stand around.
His pedigree is as follows:
Sire:Chinook Canyon out of Kiger Sun (Kiger HMA) and Kiger Shadybook's Tia (born in 1982 on the Kiger HMA)
Dam: KMR Calista out of Geronimo (call name Charro) who was captive born to a wild Kiger mare Maravilloso Kiger and Misty a wild Kiger

[spanishsagegrullas]

I am always curious what Kiger breeders see when they look at their products, and determine if the produce is average, above, or below. In particular, why the stud colts should be kept intact and bred to add more Kigers to the Kiger population.

I know that as your own colt, it is hard to be objective, but I would be very interested in hearing what you see, Dianne, as above average in this colt. As specific as possible -- and we all know they have nice intelligent personalities. I think for the most part that goes without saying. If you could use the photos you posted as examples of what you are refering to, it might give people an easier time following along with what you describe.

Personally, I think he is a cute colt, and if I were you I would not object too much to gelding. That means he would likely get out in front of people more, and thus more exposure to the public to Kigers. That's just my opinion.

Diane P.

[stormyranch]

Well, let me just say that the pictures don't do him justice. Kevin and I did fall in love with him. He has a GREAT mind and is a very well behaved stallion,, and he IS very well put together. We believe this breed needs more great stallions. There are plenty if geldings out there to show off the breed.

[DianneC]

Well, probably for the same reasons you have your stallion Diane. Perhaps you could start a new post and tell us point by point why your stallion should be kept intact? My dad died this afternoon so I'm not going to be answering your request.

[Michelle Clarke]

I agree that the breed needs more nice stallions. Rios' bloodlines are some of the nicest old lines and I'm not just saying that because he is related to Charro. He is very well put together and though he may not be everyones taste, he is far from looking like a QH, which honestly, many of the Kiger stallions out there resemble. He has nice angles, a nice neck and good bone without being heavy.

While some of the pictures are not flattering, you can see lots of potential there...his back would come up nicely with some correct work and not wearing a saddle that is too big and heavy for him, much less a large man on top of it all. His neck (and back for that matter) would change dramatically if he did not stand around with his head up in the air too; you can tell he does that alot due to the thick muscle on the underside of his neck. Kept in the right situation, that would all change quickly. He could also use some different nutrition to feed more muscle. If he were bigger and would not have to overcome some training issues, personally, I would surely consider him...

Dianne, so sorry to hear about your dad.

[kimk]

First off, Dianne I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your Dad. Prayers to you.
Second, I want to reiterate, I did not intend any offense whatsoever in saying I think he would be a great gelding. Contrary to Lisa's statement, this breed does NOT have enough great geldings.
I could certainly offer up the same suggestion of getting several people together to try to buy Kody as well, and he is a proven producer of grand champion offspring along with his own show record, and both his parents' show records. I've been seriously considering gelding Kody as there does not seem to be a market for him as a stallion. He is phenominal, well trained, great conformation, extremely typey, etc etc. His downfall is that he is 14.1, which in my eyes is a perfect height ( I'm 5'2" ) He has however not sired any foals who did not outgrow him. I would love to see him move on into a full time show career as a stallion, but it may very well come down to gelding him to make that happen.... for his sake. He just doesn't get used enough right now. I'm too busy with too many horses and a full time job to do him the justice he deserves. It is indeed diffficult to be objective of your own breeding, and I think I am my own worst critic. I've gelded some colts that probably shouldn't have been, but they got great homes and are being used under saddle and I think that is important.
This breed DOES need more GREAT geldings that people can get out there and promote promote promote.
Again Dianne, I am so very sorry for your loss.

[spanishsagegrullas]

So sorry to hear of your father’s passing, Dianne. I hope that it was not sudden, and you were able to spend quality time. I know that helps a lot.

When you are feeling up to it, I do hope you will come back on and tell us your thought process, as a breeder. Since it has been asked quite often on this board – what do you look for in a stallion and why keep them studs and not geld them – I thought it would be informative to hear what you see, especially when you have a horse you believe is beyond average.

I agree with Kim that this breed does not have enough good geldings. I have heard enough that a good stallion makes a great gelding, so I think that the horse has to be special to be kept a stallion. I personally really like Kody, and would like to see more like him, so think hard, Kim! I also have a stunning stud colt that if I could get a syndicate for, I would, because he is one of the best movers I have ever seen in a Kiger -- or even a warmblood for that matter. But that is not likely.

Thank you for the suggestion with Bullet, Dianne. I might take you up on that once everyone has shed their winter coats , although here in Central Oregon, complete shedding might not happen until July! I am always happy to brag about my horses. I doubt that I look for the same things you do, at any rate, since I am breeding to maintain the old type of Kiger, ones not typically found now, but were once much more common.

Until then, I can say that Silver Bullet has proven himself in performance with progeny. In his first year under saddle, he did very well at shows, and consistently placed above more seasoned Kigers showing in Oregon. He was in second place for the High Point trophy of KMAs, and he won High Point Green Horse, Open Division, in his first year under saddle, with me riding him, rusty after 10 years of intermittent riding time, and after 3 weeks off from training, which I had to stop due to abusive treatment. He also placed 3rd in Dun Factor, only one point behind the usual reigning Dun Factor Champion, who was placed below Bullet’s son Quicksilver Wind, then a yearling, who placed First, and went on to win the Reserve Dun Factor Championship. Bullet has also represented Kigers at Horse Expos, and was quite well mannered. Bullet’s foals are also quite good movers, something which cannot be evaluated in still photos, although I hope to have video available by end of summer.

Bullet also carries on the “old genes”, being the last colt born of Kiger Katie, a 1978 Kiger. Bullet is considered one of the best Sorraia type Kigers in existence today, and his mtDNA shows him to have the A3 genotype, that type closer to the original Iberian horse, and the genotype carried by most Lusitanos. He, his foals, and other horses of Spanish Sage Ranch have been photographed, filmed, and appeared in two articles, a book, and a documentary, all requests out of the blue from the producers and authors.

All of these are reasons why Silver Bullet has received unsolicited compliments from knowledgeable professionals from 4 continents who are involved in Lusitanos, PREs, and Iberian horses in general.

And all are reasons why I keep Silver Bullet as a breeding stallion.

Diane P.
Spanish Sage Ranch

[stormyranch]

So how many geldings does this breed have? Could it be that people just don't do anything with their geldings and that's why we don't see them. Come on how many Geldings are there? And how many great stallions do we have out their? Maybe 10 in my opinion. At least Rio has a good mind and is well behaved in-hand, which is more than I can say for some of this breeds stallions. That in my opinion is worth a lot. I love his conformation. I thinks it is perfect for the breed.
Silver Bullet is a nice Sorraia type stallion and if that's what you like then more power to you and keep up the good work. I personally like the other type of Kiger, smaller head rounder rump, shorter coupled. That is why I sold Belleza to Michelle, She was not the type I was looking for.
Well, I do hope we can save Rio and get him in shape and see what he can do. In my opinion it wouldn't hurt the breed at all to try him. I think this breed doesn't have enough great stallions to choose from.
Lisa