to use or not to use that is the ?

[nrly]

I have a friend here who has helped Jim and I with stormy, and he says that people are over medicating their horse's way to much, with bute, penicillin, and other meds. He says yes they might need penicillin, but.... do any of you have an opinion on this subject.
I do feel we tend to over medicate I give my horse's 2 shots a year,if they need penicillin I will give it but the vet has to say, cause I am not sure how much to give and i do not want them to become intolerant to the drug in case i really need it one day. not sure if i am making sense, so please let me know how you all feel about this subject.
nola

[angelskiger]

I personally never give my horse's anything until they absolutely need it, besides the yearly vaccinations. But i have seen too many people grab for the shot of penicillan too quick. I think you should give the horse time to heal on its on,we are all in such a hurry to make them heal quickly so we can get back to riding them. My vet said they will build up a tolerance to penicillan and when the time comes when you really need for it to work, it won't.

[fantasykiger]

Yeah I have never understood the folks that are always giving horses shots of penicillian, maybe because in all the accident and oops my horses have been involved in very rarely has the vet ever given' penicillan. Fantasy would go into pschycho' mode when a needle came into sight so medicating her was always some other way that avioded the use of needles. I of course do have a jug of SMZ anitbiotics in my tack room. After a mere horse cold in Fantasy came close to pnuemonia when she was young, now when my horses get to snotty they get antibiotics.
Now bute I use more readily and do have on hand, mainly because it is a anti-inflammatory. It was the saving grace for my very old horse on her bad days. But for the average horse with a few aches and pains a bit of horse asprin works just fine no need to go for the harsh bute.
So I do not know if I over medicate or if I am over protective and over cautious. But if administering a few antibiotics at the first sign of a cold or bute when there is swelling is to much. I would rather be on the side of to much and get to things before they turn into something to big and cost me way more, when I have to call to have the vet come out.

[stlkigers]

nrly said:

I have a friend here who has helped Jim and I with stormy, and he says that people are over medicating their horse's way to much, with bute, penicillin, and other meds. He says yes they might need penicillin, but.... do any of you have an opinion on this subject.
nola

Nola:

I think we only need to look at ourselves to see the potential harmful effects of overmedication and the sensitization that occurs....Working in the health field, seeing all the virulent Staph/Strep strains, new virus', etc...it amazes me how everything is "antibacterial"...What happened to good old fashioned warm water and soap? I HATE it when parents are begging for an RX for their kids for something VIRAL...Hello, antibiotics are for BACTERIAL infections! Anyways, to get off my soapbox I just feel that if we look at all the renegade strains of bacteria, and new virus' that propagate in the human world, we would not be so quick to overmedicate our animals either! What ever happened to natural immunity or just using antibiotics if our immune system truly could not conquer a bacterial infection itself???

It will be interesting to see everyone's response....There's a vet I saw at Equitana (Dr. Dan - Natural pet vet if you want to google him) who had many interesting theories about this...even went so far as to say heaves is basically a lung allergy we've helped to create in horses...

Angela

[nrly]

wow thank you all for the responses. I am guilty of over medicating my husbands horse when we first got her, she was skin on bones when we first got her, but the theory of letting nature take it's course, and we help if and when it is needed started to make more sense to me since i have become a pill popper due to health problems of my own that can't be cured on their own. It is a personal choice, but i also believe that 1: Herbs are here for a reason for us to learn about and to use with care, 2: vet's and doctors were given the talent of becoming a doctor, so between the two we should be ok. I am not sure if this makes sense. We just need to be careful...
nola

[fantasykiger]

Funny I am so much the opposite with myself then my animals, I do not go to the doctor unless I am dying. I do not pop pills (except those required for my epilepsy), I barely take a tyelnol unless my headache is oh so very bad, usually I am more likely to just go lay down for a bit. I believe every kid and every one needs to get a little sick to build up antibodies. I do not use antibiotic soap. I don't get a flu shot. I don't go looking to get sick I am sensible, I wash my hands with warm soap and water regularly before sticking them in my mouth...LOL.
But when it comes to my animals at the slightest thing I worry, I want to nip everything in the bud early. I never hesitate to call the vet. In doing so in the past now I know how to determine what wounds are worthy to call a vet how to dress wounds and what to do. My vet is confident in me to leave me with medications on hand for minor issues such as small wounds, colds or Fantasy's sinus flare ups.

[nrly]

that is wonderful Tiffany, It is awesome to know you have that re pore with your vet, we are getting there ourselves, we also have long time ranch cowboys to help us along the way. We hope one day to have that with our vet, what I also hope to do is to be able to do all i need for my horses' without always calling the vet, but am glad I have one if I need him that is a comfort.
nola

[DianneC]

We use antibiotics if the nasal discharge on a cold turns color, just like for a person. I do think that I'm changing to once a year rhino/flu etc. shots along with tentanus. It seems to me that the best thing is to keep the horses really healthy with good hay and supplements that includes stabilized ground flax. That way their own immune systems works the way its supposed to.

[kigerrose]

I had a very good friend whos vet told him to give the horse bute for an ingury she received a couple of months ago. It was to help with inflamation and pain. Well the horse did just fine and seemed to recover untill about a month later where she quit eating and got down in the bottom of the pasture and refused to move. She looked bad, he thought he might loose her.
He was able to get her to lead to a trailer and took her back to the same vet. He checked her out and decided that she had ulcers from giving to much bute. (which he had prescribed)

She was put on something called Ulcer Guard for about two weeks and did pull out of it.

This horse was not a Kiger and prone to injuries, has been on and off bute for many years.

My belief is less is more.

I am lucky my Kiger never gets sick and has never had an injury. She is a tough little bugger.

[nrly]

same with my kiger, stormy, and mow with Riddle. what do you all think of the supplement strategy. that is what the vet has us put riddle on it is the one for alfalfa, and he seems to be doing do good. He is now getting an attitude, which is ok it isn't a bad one, he is just a good boy, loves to be groomed, have his feet done, and loves his supplements, bran and pellets. tell me what you think of supplements.
nola

[lindad]

Nola,
All things in moderation! All things in balance. I think that herbs and suppliments are great when a person knows how, when and why they are using them and what the side effects are, and what other things they can react with. Most of us don't know and need to consult with experts that do know, and not necessarily from those who make a profit from it. An example: a friend of mine used to sell a well known brand of suppliments. Anyone could join and sell these products. Problem was that she would read excerpts on conditions and how one suppliment or another cured it. She self-diagnosed and ended up with a very serious condition because she had her minerals so out of balance by overdosing on one mineral she knocked other minerals out of balance and caused a deficiency and illness. I know that in AZ you have to feed alphalpha hay, and that you will need to be careful of other feeds and suppliments due to the high concentration of calcium found in it. I think that mustangs in general are not used to highly concentrated feed, and are quite efficient with their food and we can do more harm than good by getting too fancy with the suppliments unless you really research and study this stuff religiously. Good quality clean hay (pasture would be ideal) fresh water and lots of fresh air is the basis of horse health. Given all of the fads and contradictory info I've heard and seen on human nutrition and the state of obesity and health problems, I've become pretty conservative about such things.
Linda D

[nrly]

thank you gave me food for thought, Do not want to do anything to harm my treasurers. Will reasearch and study.
nola

[Michelle Clarke]

lindad said:

I think that mustangs in general are not used to highly concentrated feed, and are quite efficient with their food and we can do more harm than good by getting too fancy with the suppliments unless you really research and study this stuff religiously.

Funny this subject has come up....I have hit a wall with my feeding program once again. I say it takes about a year to be able to see what a feed can really do (or not do). Luckily, we have a wide variety of breeds, work loads and ages out here, so we get to really see what is lacking and what is of benefit.

Being out here in Texas, raising horses and some having heavy workloads, we have had a heck of a time balancing nutrition, weight and especially muscle. The reason for this is two-fold: first, the grass out here has either been stressed by drought or last year floods. It is not great quality to begin with being, being burmuda - which is the only thing that grows here. When you buy hay, you NEVER know if it is 6% protein or 13% (depeding on so many factors) and you would go crazy with the amount of hay we get to have each batch tested and to readjust feeding rations, supplements, etc.

Second, it is hard to find quailty grains - can't find barley worth a flip at all, which is benefical to keep weight. Then you have to find a good vit/min supplement that they won't blow out of the feed bucket or leave at the bottom. Commercial feeds are so loaded with sugar, water and other garbage. Not to mention if you actually fed the amount they recommended, our horses would be obese and the amount of manure out the other end would me monumentous for sure.

So, if you don't feed what they recommend, then is you horse getting the vits/mins they need? NO.

One of the major problems I am having is with my fat Kigers. They are FAT, and being fed next to nothing and some are working pretty hard - which means lower energy levels. The thing is though, they are fat in funny places. Crested necks, fat over the shoulders, huge fat pockets over the tail head and along the sacrum and big water bellies. Even have fat over the eyes. Now, Desi is probably the worst. This horse gets a flake of alfalfa in the morning with 1.5 lbs. of Nutrena Ultra - then he goes out for the day in pasture. He comes up in the early evening, gets a hard workout and then gets 1.5 lbs. Ultra and before I go up at night, two flakes of tifton hay. Desi is not only tall (almost 16.2 now), but he is a tank weighing about 1,300 lbs. So, his diet is very minimal.

I went and looked at all my pure Kigers yesterday in all age groups and broodmares, and every pure Kiger has the same issue (but not so exaggerated as Des). Even Charro, who stays slim, has fat pockets in those same areas. Everyone from the foals on up. None of the crossbreds do.

This is a metabolic issue - not being able to process the sugars/starches and certain carbs. That is fine, there are plenty of ways to go about feeding this - BUT, on growing horses? on lactating mares? on performance horses? That is the hard part. And what does it say about their diet to begin with?

Well, on my head-spinning, brain numbing quest I have found a new product that we are going to do a test group on over the next months. I met with the folks that developed it yesterday, then they came out and took a look at the horses and our feeding program that is in place now. It sounds very promising.

Plus, they have a money-back guarantee, so they are pretty confident about what the product can do. I found them to be highly educated, down to earth, easy to get along with and very pleasent folks. Lots of research has gone into this and continues.

Interestingly, the feed contains sea kelp, diatomacious earth and even yucca (which kills the EPM parasite in the gut before it crosses over the blood/brain barrier) amoung other good things.

It is also an extruded feed, so highly digestable and able to maintain nutrients.

I am excited about the possiblities and plan on keeping a good log on progress.

[nrly]

let us know how it goes, and if it is as good as they say, can you give us the name of this product.
the stuff I have Riddle on a horse owner there in Texas endorses it. STRATEGY. any way let us know how this goes with your Kigers.
nola

[fantasykiger]

Sounds very interesting Michelle, remember Alex fed the Black Stallion seakelp in the Movie "The Black Stallion" I only saw that movie a 100 times and when I saw that it reminded me of that scene
I would be very interested in hearing how it goes for you.

Fantasy is still suffering from sinus troubles now and again. Now we worry that on her bad days she may be suffering sinus headaches. We are awaiting information from a lady who was introduced to a new herbal product when her horse had a horrible event with his sinuses. It helped her horse alot and I am crossing my fingers this may help Fantasy as well.