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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 11, 2008 14:02:01 GMT -5
You have very valid points. There are plenty of folks that breed just to breed with no real viable method to the madness. The days are over with breeding for a buck, trust me. With what it costs to keep, raise and promote horses, it is hardly worth it unless you have a set market with a need. It is a huge responsibility to keep a stallion, not to mention expense; even more for AI fees. Last year it cost me $6,000.00 to get two mares AI'd with stud fees, vet costs, etc. It is not a cheap game. The positive thing with the prices going up on everything is that it is killing the backyard breeder. While it also hurts good breeders, it will be a better thing in the long run. If you think breeding mustangs is a silly deal, check out the QH breeders that breed for color - you will find a plethra of incompetance, sorry ass looking horses and basic stupidity of people - I am still constantly amazed at the basic ignorance of people! At least with the mustangs you have soundess and a sense of trainability! I have been involved with Arabian breeding and showing back in the day; done the Paso thing, had/bred/showed PRE's and Lusitanos, but the Kiger is the breed that has it hands down. I don't care if they are labled "mustangs" the truth is they are a terrific animal any way you look at it - the whole package. Someone mentioned once that the Kiger is a horse that can be called "the great improver" - I not only belive this, but have seen it with my own eyes. Trust me, I would make a lot more money if I sold all my stock, bought 4 good Luso mares and bred to Luso stallions! The only regret to the breed is the back stabbing and meliciousness of the people involved. That is what will be the destruction in the end, not the horses themselves. While I appreciate your opinions and understand where they come from, there are more than just backyard breeders with Kigers and there are some big hitters within the breed. Many of which you never hear about because they steer VERY clear of the people messes! ;D |
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 11, 2008 17:55:12 GMT -5
Kigerfan, she's lovely. I wasn't really speaking to you directly, but more a general remark. There are a lot of people who aren't capable of assessing what they've got objectionably, which, to me at least, it's helpful to know how a horse stacks up against others in it's breed. Michelle, I know there are some folks who breed very sound, balance Kigers. It's unfortunate that there are also those who have more money than brains. How does Joe Schmoe know which breeders are which when there are...how many registries?...all with different opinions? And with no point system for tracking which horses truly are the best representatives of the breed? Again, not meant to argue, just to create some thought. Nice we've all gotten straight from the adoption pen. Special and unique is in the eye of the beholder. What makes them special or unique? I'm just trying to get definitions and clarification, because from what I've read so far, seems there are different opinions on what the horses should even look like...spanish colonial? Quarter horses? Should some colors be disqualified? Very little unity that I can see...  Here's the boat I think y'all have missed while arguing for the captive bred: Some folks haven't got the facilities or talent to take on a wild one.  I'd love to see something independent of all the registries out there that is nothing more than a data base on all the horses that come out of Kiger or Riddle, plus any domestic born or bred horses that are descendants. Color, type, nothing like that would be discriminated against, because it's just a recording system. From there, points earned at open shows, trail competition and the like could be tracked and recorded, or special Kiger only shows could be held that were open to all registries as a way for people to see how their horse stacked up against others. That, at least to me, would be a huge asset in marketing Kigers to the general public. I'm not trying to tear down the effort to create a breed, just like to have clear cut definitions. It's kind of like a business plan. Actually...it is a business plan |
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Post by fantasykiger on Jan 11, 2008 18:26:21 GMT -5
I would love to see something like that as well but truely, how does one get something like that going with out calling it a new registry and how do they get folks to submit their horses to the list?
I too have been begging for clear cut set in stone definitions, I have noticed a change in some of the registries to finally post on the websites a page with breed standards.
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 11, 2008 20:10:10 GMT -5
I don't know...just a few folks starting it, I suppose, calling it a data bank rather than registry. Start talking to the different registries, try to get input and gain trust, let them know you're not the competition, that it's just a data base; a place people can go for reference. You may have some folks who are involved with a registry who may feel threatened, but that's just life, I suppose. You can't ever please everyone. No guarantee as to getting all horses who are currently out there privately owned into the data base, but I think we could work with the BLM to get those who were recently gathered programmed in. From there, each registry could define whatever they want as their particular style. It would seem there are just too many opinions on what is and isn't a Kiger out there right now, and at least this would give a starting point that isn't controversial. (Ha...okay, that's a dream... :  |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 11, 2008 20:26:05 GMT -5
Actually, years ago I tried to start such a place that was NOT a registry: www.kigerquest.com/I invited everyone I could get in touch with but it did not go very far. maybe KQ was just ahead of it's time and there could be a use for it now... |
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 11, 2008 20:28:11 GMT -5
I think you should try it again. I'll add my mare to the list as well as help you market it.
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 11, 2008 20:32:55 GMT -5
Just looked at your site. There's no option for horses not registered with a registry.
Also, you may want to have an option for what the BLM labels a horse in regards to color (since in our case, it doesn't appear to match up.) Also, bay and brown aren't listed. Perhaps a 'fill in the blank' would be better? I know someone who's got a silver dun Kiger, wild caught, but that wouldn't be reflected in your database. I was going to add Firecracker, but I think I'll wait until she sheds out in the spring for a more accurate color.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 11, 2008 20:36:57 GMT -5
I belive I started that site like 3 yrs ago and never went any further because of not enough support. Thanks for your input and maybe we can get it going again. I think I have enough folks interested that I would not have to do all the work on my own at this point too.
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Post by nrly on Jan 11, 2008 21:13:52 GMT -5
you know what I think people are so scared that a new registry will take away from them financially, or expose something they have hidden in their closet, for me it is all about this breed, not the people or the paper. but the breed. so till I know something is right or whatever i will stay right where I am at.
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 11, 2008 21:19:14 GMT -5
That's just it, though...it's not a 'registry', it's a catalog of who's been caught and who's been captive bred.
Think allbreed pedigree online. It's a data base. That's what I'm thinking of. Nothing that offers you papers or opinions.
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Post by angelsdream on Jan 11, 2008 21:42:13 GMT -5
I agree. I think it should be more for tracking the history of a horse than saying I have a "registered" horse. At least it would be a way to see exactly who has what horse and a way to look back at where each horse comes from.
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Post by toucan on Jan 11, 2008 22:14:05 GMT -5
That's just it, though...it's not a 'registry', it's a catalog of who's been caught and who's been captive bred. Think allbreed pedigree online. It's a data base. That's what I'm thinking of. Nothing that offers you papers or opinions. An online database exists - www.americankiger.com/directory.htmIt's certainly not without errors or predjuice but overall it's the best attempt made. |
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Post by karismakigers on Jan 11, 2008 22:30:47 GMT -5
True, the Mustang Directory that American Kiger has is a wonderful start at a Kiger database.
However, it is a shame that there are so many holes though. Unfortunately, one of the Kiger registry won't give any pedigrees on their horses or even provide BLM freezebrand numbers on the horses from the wild that are registered in the registry.
Oh well, so much for supporting the breed.
Jillian
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Post by toucan on Jan 11, 2008 22:45:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, one of the Kiger registry won't give any pedigrees on their horses or even provide BLM freezebrand numbers on the horses from the wild that are registered in the registry. Oh well, so much for supporting the breed. Jillian How could they? All the more reason for accepting what is known through public knowledge today with what documented information is available. Move on, forget about my horse is more pure than yours, get the right type of people involved with this breed and let the breed shine to the extent that it is capable of. No breed is without it's skeletons, AQHA included. But accept and move on. Desperatehorselover, this breed deserves to flourish in captivity. When you ride one, hopefully you'll understand. [/quote] |
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Post by karismakigers on Jan 11, 2008 22:59:22 GMT -5
How could they? All the more reason for accepting what is known through public knowledge today with what documented information is available. Move on, forget about my horse is more pure than yours, get the right type of people involved with this breed and let the breed shine to the extent that it is capable of. No breed is without it's skeletons, AQHA included. But accept and move on. Desperatehorselover, this breed deserves to flourish in captivity. When you ride one, hopefully you'll understand. True, most breeds (if not all) have some nasty skeleton in the closet. The unfortunate thing is that 40% of this breed is completely unknown due to one registry not wanting/willing to provide info. American Kiger is about as unbias as they come....any color, any type, just trace to a BLM freezebranded Kiger or to a known Found Kiger. Personally, I have dealt with several people trying to register their Kigers in KHAR. They send KHAR the existing registration papers on their horse and the pedigree isn't complete. I frequently go over to the Mustang Directory to see if the pedigree might be there. If it is not, I have to ask the people to contact the registry that their horse is registered with to get a complete pedigree. They either get ignored by the registry or receive a nasty-gram. These poor people are dumbfounded. They just want their special Kiger registered in as many registries as they can. They want to be able to enjoy all the benefits of belonging to a group that is centered around having fun with their Kiger. Heartbreaking.... Jillian |
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