Wierd ideas spring forth sometimes

[kigerfan]

So everyone agrees that the quality of the kigers in the wild is going down hill. While the quality of most of the kigers in captivity is pretty darn good.... Okay so here's the wierd idea..
Would it be inconceivable to gather some herds on the two hmas and have the mares artificially inseminated with sperm from some of our top rated and foundation stallions? Kind of giving back, in a way. Am I totally off my nut or does that sound like something worth considering? I know if I had a stallion that was worthy of such a donation, I'd do it in a hot second if it was feasible.

[DianneC]

AI requires precise timing, 12 hours prior to ovulation is usually recommended as best. That means at least one vet check with ultrasound to see the size of the follicle and when ovulation is going to occur. Not something the BLM would be able to handle. Nice idea though. The best and fastest way is to have the right person make the selection of horses to go back out at the next gather.

[waterbearer]

Perhaps this should be a new thread, but this seemed like as good place as any to post...

What are everyone's thoughts on Pryor Mountain horses and Kigers mixing?

As I understand it, Pryor mustangs are similar to Kigers in that they both show many of the Spanish mustang characteristics, containing at least 90% Colonial Spanish horse "blood," and have a tendency towards primitive colors / markings. They're also similarly isolated. Horses from Oregon (I haven't found more detail than that but to be honest haven't looked that hard either) were used to help stock up the Pryor herds when their uniqueness was recognized and the BLM wanted to maintain they're "look." Judging by some of the Pryor horses I've seen, it seems very likely that those Oregon horses were Kigers.

Take a look at these guys. www.pryorhorses.com/our_stallions.htm
Check out the dun factor alone of some of these horse:
www.pryorhorses.com/
& arrowheadmustangs.com/History%20of%20the%20Horses.html
And check out these mares. www.pryorhorses.com/our_mares.htm
Now, I'm not saying I'm crazy about the conformation of all these horses, and I don't know if those mares are preggers or wormy, but overall...
when you look at the pics. of Pryors that are either bred by someone, or of those that are still in the wild, there are some definite Kiger similarities, and I've seen some fine examples of conformation on a lot as well.
This guy needs a hoof trimming, but I digress. If I took a look at him and you didn't tell me that he was a Pryor Mustang, I would have said he was a Kiger without a doubt:
www.carnahanranch.com/uploads/118.jpg

here are some more pages:
groups.msn.com/NEWMBA/whatisapryormountainmustang.msnw
groups.msn.com/NEWMBA/pryormustangspage2.msnw
www.carnahanranch.com/pryor.php

So I'm wondering... if it's an issue of quality in EITHER strain, or space / range quality in either herd for that matter, and under a microscope, the horses are genetically similar, what does everyone think about horses from the Pryor Mtn. area being used to upgrade the viability of Kigers and VICE VERSA, should it ever become necessary?

My thinking is this: both strains are managed in a similar way for the same thing, and originally for the same reason: to retain the purest possible colonial Spanish blood and they're unique look. They're very similar and possibly related. Since horses are removed that do not help in this regard either for their conformation, or the fact that they turn out to be gray in the case of the Kigers, and so on, then why can't both strains be managed together?

The main differences I see are that Pryor horses run a little smaller, averaging 14h. and they come in EVERY color.

So like the question I had about roan on the Dun Deal board, just a hypothetical...
If there is a (real) claybank, a real blue roan, or real red roan Pryor or Arrowhead horse that by all measures and standards in phenotype and genotype could be a Kiger, and is indeed just as "Spanish," would anyone be opposed to those horses being imported into one of the Kiger HMA's? And if another gray showed up in one of the Kiger HMA's or maybe a horse that was an acceptable Kiger color, but was only 13.2 hands, would it be OK to import them to one of the Pryor areas?
Does anyone think they're similar enough that they could be used to manage each other? One area with no restriction on color containing smaller horses, the other managed for slightly larger horses that are only dun, red dun, grulla, black, bay, roan, etc.? I mean, it was done before, so why not again?

Make any sense?
Feasible?
Arguments for or against?

[DianneC]

It sounds logical if you don't know the history of the Kiger herds and the amount of infighting about "found" horses from outside the Kiger and Riddle herd management areas. We've had plenty of fighting and I don't think anyone would want to consider this because of that. Nice thinking outside the box though Waterbearer. And yes, Dunbar has amazing stripes and could probably pass for a Kiger. But but this is a closed registry now. What is really needed is the right person to be present when the horses that are to remain as the breeding herd are selected as they are rounded up for adoption. That person, Josh, is available and has volunteered to do it. We just need to make sure it happens.

[waterbearer]

Thanks Dianne. I realize it was more of a stream of consciousness thought than an actual viable plan because I am aware of the infighting between the different registries and the issue of found horses, and there's no need to stir that up again over just a 'thought.'
I guess I was just wondering why I hadn't heard of it brought up before in all the decades each area was managed. I mean, I can't have been the first to think of it, right?
Then again, but for the few well-meaning and dedicated people in the BLM, as government bureaucracies go, they've got to be at the top of my list of the most poorly managed, so I wouldn't be terribly shocked if I was.
That's good news I hear about this Josh person. I think I saw it mentioned somewhere else before, but I can't find it right now. Who is he, and what exactly is the plan?