Into the Future...

[Michelle Clarke]

I am hoping that the messages that we have been seeing here on this Board are getting through to the many many guest lurkers that we have visiting us on a daily basis.

It seems as if, for the most part, everyone is in agreement, that yes, we acknowledge the "found" horses, there have been great suggestions as how to handle them (in fact, it seems as if most registries are handling them), and we all just want to MOVE FORWARD!

It is part of the Kiger history, whether we like it or not. I can't imagine one breed that did not start out with "other" horses and accept them as what is deemed pure, or at least their progeny when bred to already registered mares (excluding the Arab, but they had to start somewhere too!). We have also established that there still are plenty of breeds that are more based on "type" and as a regular practice accept other breeds into the stud books.

There are also some breeds that do close their studbooks to try to establish some kind of uniformity and control. I don't see anything wrong with that either if it works for them. I do belive that it is hard to do with the Kiger, as we still have a draw of horses from the wild and are still considered Kigers within the parameters of what was originally set up.

I still don't belive there is a registry that is user friendly enough to handle all the needs of the members - no offense to anyone.

So now what? I hardly belive that yet another registry is the answer. I still don't belive a merger will happen - too much disagreement and finger pointing.

There has been some that have expressed interest in the Kiger Quest concept. That was not only intended to be a database so to speak, but a group of Kiger folks who are ready to move forward, educate people and promote the Kiger.

Maybe that is an option, but I think that there is no denying that we are all ready to MOVE FORWARD and make a positive push for the horses.

[kigerfan]

I do like the idea of Kiger Quest. I agree that the registries in general will not come together. Found blood smound blood, they're all found blood, their ancestors all came from different HMA's so why be snooty. It's really bad when a 'non kiger' frome Beattys Butte is more 'typey' than one from the kiger ranges and still is not wanted, since many originally came from there anyway. Lets get our noses out of the air, accept that like any start up anything, there is some rocky ground. score the horses on they're conformation and such and as you said... move on. Besides, it sure sound to me like the 'Kiger' ranges could use an infusion of good typey blood so that it gets back on track to what a Kiger should look like. I'd hate to think that somewhere down the road, 'Kigers' on the range are going to look like dun colored draft horse mutts because the low quality that was seen in the last round up went back out on the range to breed with no influx of good quality blood that would help get the breed back on track out there. If it was between a mutt that carried the 'title' of kiger and a 'non kiger' that had the old qualities of the original kiger, I'm going for the horse not the title. How about you?

[desperatehorsewife]

Ditto.

My thoughts:

I think there are a lot of BB horses out there that would make nice Kigers, but I'm not seeing that the registries would allow that, are you? I honestly don't see any reason not keep the book open a few more years to help the breed grow into healthy stock genetically, especially if there are horses from other HMAs that can make the grade in looks, temperament and dna.

I don't think the registries should ever be closed to wild kigers. I do believe that when the BLM selects horses to turn back out, that they'll be smart enough to realize which types are going to bring in the most money for them and select for that. The hard part is that those who don't meet the criteria are the ones that will be brought in. For folks like me, who just want a nice horse to go out and ride, that's not a problem. For others who are trying to develop a breeding program, that may become an issue, but certainly within each gather there will be horses that will work.

I'd go back to a breeding evaluation, with a horse either needing to make the grade based on physical characteristics or performance, before their offspring can be registered. Certainly there would be gray areas that would be ticklish when it comes to horses that just miss the mark, and you'd be up against a judges opinion...but maybe thats where performance tests could step in? One of the biggest reasons I think a horse should be evaluated before breeding is that there are just too many unwanted horses in this country right now, and this is an opportunity to step up to the plate and say that the Kiger breeders refuse to breed for breeding sake alone, and that it's a conscientious effort to better the breed and only produce horses that are of outstanding quality.

[desperatehorsewife]

Oh...I'd also love to see that there was a point system in place for those who are competing with their horses against other breeds. If you're winning at the buckskin shows, cutting, dressage...that needs to be noted in the Kiger books.

[stlkigers]

I am so tired of the found blood issue....Let's just get over it and get on with RIDING and PROMOTING these Kigers! I too would love to see a point system in place, maybe it'd get people off their butts and into a venue/area of exposure for the general public to meet more Kigers...I have never in my life exposure to horses whether it was the western events I used to compete in or the 3 day events I used to do saw a breed of horses with so little training....

[nrly]

this found issue is a big block in the road isn't it. It is something I do not understand, and guess i never will. Didn't the AQHA have a problem with horse's with way to much white, and hence the APHA came into effect. Why not make a registry for the found horse, and then somehow include them in the Kiger registry,maybe as a sister registry. I heard the AQHA is letting QT horses with allot of white to be registered in that association. I just heard not sure if it is correct. you know the talk out there in the horse world.

[Michelle Clarke]

Nola, you are right, it is crazy and it needs to be addressed then left alone. Every breed has had some "outside" blood in it at some point, whether at the begining when forming the breed or when the gene pool is low. Gosh, the Kiger breed stared on taking horses from close HMAs' and putting them together, so....?? I think the big thing is some folks are mad that people made some money off those horses and not been forthright in regards to origin. But again, I really don't know and honestly, at this point we need to move forward. Deal with it and move on.

You are also right about breeds changing. Now I see registered QH's that are also registered w/ the Paints and I just don't know about all that, but it does show us how it is VERY acceptable to have new blood, so to speak, be put into an established breed. The warmblood folks do it all the time. Once again, a registry that has different catagories for different scenerios could be nothing but beneficial. But what is comes down to is elitism and mine is better than yours.

There is a line of PRE in Spain that is bred to Portuguese standards if you will. They are essentially all spanish, but the breeder follows Lusitano outlines for breeding. SO, alot of Lusitano breeders use the spanish Bocado line in their programs for a diversity of blood. In the US, it is impossible to find Lusitanos that are not related to eachother (only 700), so quite a few breeders will use a Bocado mare every so many generations.

It really is hard to know what is right and what is not. I don't belive we can say. There will be elitests that will say "Only PURE for me".....and then there will be progressive breeders who will consider all options to produce the best product.

[sonrisa98]

I posted this in another thread. All Paints with QH's bloodlines that are registered are now accepted in the AQHA, but with a notation that they have undesireable markings on there papers. The reason being is that white is related to the sabino/overo/spash white in any breed. So it is thought thru genetic findings that the sabino gene creates all white markings on solid colored horses of any breed. So with that finding, is the Kiger still allowed to have white markings or not? How do you beed that gene out of them?

[Michelle Clarke]

WOW, how interesting....have any data on the genetic finding?? Interesting because no pinto coloring is allowed in the Kigers, but if this is the case, then I guess that boat has sailed, because then all white markings will be under that umbrella! hmmmmmmmm...............

[nrly]

my Tabiano paint she tends to throw off solid babies.(Flashy). We are hoping for a blk/wht baby this time even though the sire has that H gene (can't spell it so wont even try) she still could throw a solid. this genic thing is interesting.
nola

[sonrisa98]

well its more complicated then that. Tobianos aren't allowed to be registered in the AQ HA because its a different gene not found in QH/TB bloodlines. So depends on what gene it is. I'll see if I can get ahold of the genetic info on all this. But I did find the sabino gene quite interesting when it came to white markings like socks and stars.

[nrly]

cool I have a picture of her posted here under foaling if you want to see her.
nola