Horse memory?

[angelsdream]

I was thinking of this and thought I'd get other's opinions. Do horse's remember? Example: say the horse I raised and sold as a 4 year old, do you think she would remember me if I saw her? And do you think they recognize and can distinguish between all of us? I just wonder how they think and recognize.....

[barbhorses]

Horses do remember. Otherwise, people wouldn't be able to have a finished horses and would have to start from scratch everyday because they didn't remember the lessons from yesterday. You also wouldn't be able to have those kinds of horses where they sit in a pasture for a few years and then just go and saddle them up and they ride like they were ridden only yesterday.

The difference in memory of animals and people(imo) is that you wont be able to punish or praise an animal say 5 min (its actually quite a bit less than that) after they have done something. You cannot go up to your horse a week after he kicked in a panel on the shed or got into the feed bin and tell him how bad he is. He will look at you like wtf is your problem lady?? lol He will not associate the praise or correction with what he did unless it is immediately done after the deed. As far as memory of people, other animals and lessons learned etc., you bet they remember!

[angelsdream]

Yes I understand the memory part when it comes to training, kigers have a wonderful mind and really remember there training. I was talking in general about them distinquishing between us, and other horses? If they remember there owners (by smell, or what) Just curious, as Shane went out to catch Lakota the other day and she ran from him, but when I went out to get her, she didn't move, I walked right up to her. So wondering how they know its us, how do they see?

And I believe the punishment when it comes to horses is the 3 second rule, right? after 3 seconds, you can't touch them because they won't know what they did wrong. Man, it would be nice to forget that quickly when someone hurt us or wronged us!! haha and to be able to move on like horses do.

[fantasykiger]

I wonder if it is like what Ceasar describes with dogs they remember, but they live in the moment, not the past. Many humans live in the past, with emotions such as guilt and regret. So that is why is is important to discipline then for a wrong doing right at the moment they do it, then move on like no big deal.
Although I have come across the occassional horse that has very strong opinions.

[barbhorses]

Yea, they do remember. I was reading a book where a horse really didn't like this guy and when he smelled him or saw him now matter how long he hadn't seen or smelled him the horse's reaction was the same. Pinned ears, and rearing. Not a happy horse.

If you think about it, if a horse can remember his training, why wouldn't he also be able to remember friends or enemies?

Horses is a 3 second rule. Dogs are 5 seconds.

Not sure if you have noticed with Ceasar, but his techniques center around surprise and very dominant body language.

[kigerca]

Horses have excellent memories, (often for experiences we don't want them to remember). especially when young or training has just started, they try to remember and repeat every thing. As they age they become more resilient to our mistakes.
Based on your example of catching horses that can be a different subject them memory. Often that is the person's body language more then smell or sight recognition. A person who understands proper body language could walk in a pasture and catch a horse they have never seen before when the owner cannot. OR A horse might recognize familiar or comfortable body language more then the smell or sight. Although a horse's sight and smell is about 8X better then ours.

[angelsdream]

Yes, that all makes sense. Im always talking to lakota as im walking up to her, so it could be my voice also. So I guess it would be smell that horses distinquish other horses from - since you could have the same color horses in a herd, it would have to be smell?? Right? I do notice when horses check you out, they are always sniffing of you. I hear them take deep breaths. mmmmm, this is very interesting.

[fantasykiger]

I am lazy so I call my horses and they come to me (most of the time ), in a herd of horses they all remember their own individual names.
I am sure smell is very important to horses, which makes a windy day all the more stimulating.

[desperatehorsewife]

Years ago I had a horse who for a while was kept at my folks' place. When I moved him to another barn we one day came across my mom's old gelding. It'd been 4 years since they'd seen each other, but they immediately knew each other, whinnying across the parking lot at each other.

I'm not sure they dwell on relationships like we do, and I'm not one to necessarily believe they are grateful towards people for 'rescuing' them from dire situations, but they certainly do remember those they like and those they dislike, even if the 'why' isn't clear in their minds.

[Michelle Clarke]

In my experience, I have found them to have remarkable memories. It happens to Eric alot when he travels and gives a clinic with repeat horses...they perk right up and do their best to get over to him to be loved on.

My first Kiger would pin his ears and sulk in the corner of his stall when his previous owner would visit - just the sound of his footsteps hitting the concrete aisle would turn his nostrils up and flatten his ears. The whole time I had him, he had no tolerance for anyone in a baseball cap; sometimes would lunge at them even.

Parelli says they have flashbacks - a smell, sound, certain touch or situation will spark a memory, and send them right into that last behavior they had experienced. We have seen that on alot of abused horses, but also on horses that were started wrong.

Tiffany....our horses are the same! We'll have a whole group of weanlings/yearlings (10 or so) and open the gate and call one. It still amazes me that they walk right up - even past the alpha horses because they know I won't let anyone chase them - and come right in. Sometimes they look like they are so privaleged, their eyes get big and they perk up like "who, me?", it is so funny!

[1Kiger]

I'm always fascinated by horse behavior, and animal behavior in general. My mare, Maddie, has a long memory. The trainer re-educating her this last summer was amazed (and sometimes dismayed) at how well she remembered everything. Of course I suspect it is a mustang trait. And it is true about flashbacks, she had a lot of them, and the behavior that they triggered was dangerous, including bolting and panic attacks. I don't believe she was abused, but her fears certainly weren't addressed correctly.
As far as her personality goes ... My mare can be pretty hot blooded, with strong flight tendencies. she's highly skeptical and, as with many mustangs, it takes a long time to earn her trust. She is definitely right brained on the Parelli horsenality chart. She is nothing like the horses I've ridden before, which were mostly quarter horses. It's been truly a learning experience. I've learned to take it slow and let her think when she needs to.
While in rehab training, once she understood that we were trying to help, she was great... and now she is progressing incredibly well, with fewer and fewer flashbacks that trigger "psychedelic" moments, as the trainer called them.
What have you all noticed about Kiger behavior traits? Are there tendencies toward certain behaviors that have been noted within certain bloodlines or in general?

[angelsdream]

Hi 1Kiger - it sounds like Maddie is coming along nicely. What a great job you've done to get her this far and to take on the task. That's very hard and takes lots of time to earn trust and lots and lots of patience to deal with a flighty horse. I've had my experience with that.

As far as kiger behavior - Ive noticed they are very curious, which is a great thing. Also they are friendly and love to be in the mix of things. I saw it in the 3 kiger's Ive been around. Which I believe is what attracts everyone to kigers. Along with there brain of course. Bella, my filly, is starting to get very curious. She has started trying to chew on everything and check it all out. 1st she started with my jacket a week ago, she wasnt quiet sure what it was, so she nibbled on it while I had my back turned talking, which is a no -no to me. that just opens up a big can of worms...last night she was chewing on the chain that locks the barn gate..so her brain is starting to churn and her personality is starting to come out. She has taken a shine to the son of the lady where I keep my horses. and he is NOT a horse boy, only goes to the pasture when he HAS to, he's 19, college kid and has never liked horses...so not sure what bella is up to..ha Lakota - well she's the image of a kiger that I think everyone dreams of. She's the total package, as far as what I am looking for, brains, personality, training ability (very willing) and loads of personality

I truly love the kiger breed for all these traits. Is Maddie your 1st kiger? Do you see the same similar traits?

[stlkigers]

Kiger behavior....Welll I have had 4 kigers...A freezebranded mare(whom I believe was cowboyed a bit) and her 2 colts (full brothers to eachother), and now another freezebranded colt....The mare acted like an abused horse with a HUGE fear of ropes; nothing like I've ever seen in any other BLM mustang I've owned....Her colts were both fairly hot....My new colt (Heck I say new but got him in 2007) is AWESOMELY laid back....The commonality in all that I see is exactly what Bettye Roberts(other board/Okie Kigers) told me about Kigers.....Keep them learning, they are smart and can get bored easily.....Just my 2 cents....

Angela

[1Kiger]

Hi Angelsdream,
I know I'm going to end up writing a book here, because this has been such an odyssey.
Your comment on brains, personality and training ability were exactly why I was interested in Kigers. Well, ok, they are striking animals too.
I bought Maddie because I had met a couple of Kigers back in the 90's and loved their willingness and kind behavior so I'd been wanting to adopt one since then. But I already had my good old boy, Rio, who I must say has been the best partner I've ever had, and was perfect for my Mounted Search and Rescue activities. When my QH gelding became too lame to ride (navicular) 3 years ago, I started looking in earnest for a Kiger, thinking a Kiger would be a great horse for MSAR. Meanwhile though, we had sold off our family "farm" where we used to keep our horses, and I was boarding out, so I no longer had the facilities to adopt a mustang off the range. I had to go looking for a domesticated Kiger, or at least one that had training. There were a whole lot for sale about 2 years ago, but only a couple had any training under saddle. Maddie was one of them... she was advertised with 60 days training and trail experience (turns out it was one time). Little did I know how much work I had ahead of me.
This horse was the most fearful little filly (she was 4) I'd ever met. She had been bred domestically, but was highly skeptical of anything to do with a person and the common tools of the trade, like saddles. It took 3 months (working 5 days a week with her) before she stopped sidling away from me when I walked up to her, and I know how to move passively around horses. It took just as long before she could look at me with both eyes. She was scared of the saddle and it took a year before she'd stop flinching when I put it on her... though even now she has moments. I met the young woman who had her before me, and I don't think she was abused, but it was clear to me her fears weren't addressed properly. She was extremely unconfident and quick to panic. I spent a year ground working her to try and build her confidence. I certainly became a better horsewoman, watching all the DVDs by Anderson and Parelli, & going to natural horsemanship clinics when I could afford them, I did everything I could to help her, but I still didn't feel she was safe... it was a gut feeling, that I trust since I've been riding since I was a toddler. I finally was losing my confidence and actually fell into a fear cycle, which I had never experienced before, though the fears were not unreasonable. This is a horse that ran straight through barbed wire fences when bolting, & would fly into a panic if somebody looked at her wrong. She was absolutely terrified of ropes around and behind her. As much as I was afraid she'd hurt me, I was more afraid she'd hurt herself and other people. I was lucky on a couple of occasions that she didn't seriously injure herself.
Needless to say her behavior patterns were way beyond my ability to resolve. A couple of trainers had said she was still too dangerous to ride, after I had spent a year of working with her. I sent her out to one trainer for a month who never got on her because she was still "not safe."
It became a very emotional time for me, as I don't give up on horses easily, and I was looking at having to sell her. I knew if I sold her to someone, as beautiful as she is, there was a good chance she'd end up at a feedlot auction, on the other hand I'm not wealthy and can't afford a pasture ornament when I was already supporting my retired QH.
One day I last summer, I stumbled across an ad from a trainer on Craigslist. I would normally never send a horse to a trainer that I hadn't researched, but my intuition was telling me to call this woman. Turns out to be one of the best calls I made. Jodie made this mare her mission. Jodie was horrified at her behavior. Maddie completely fell apart when I left her at their ranch. She went into total fear mode. It took all of three months of re-education and rebuilding her foundation, 7 days a week, before Maddie finally understood that we are not here to kill her. This was last summer. She came home a changed horse, more trusting and relaxed. That's not to say she doesn't lose confidence still, but she doesn't panic and bolt like she did. She can now actually stop and look and think. I'm very careful to let her think her way through anything new. All I can say is God bless that trainer. And I'm loving riding my girl now. One of the things I've always liked most about her, is her try. She is also one of the most sensitive horses I've been around. It is wonderful. She may never make a perfect patrol horse, as was Rio, but she'll have some great Search and Rescue abilities he doesn't have, like sensitivity to her surroundings, better scent detection. So it'll be a trade off, but one I can be happy with.
I'm going to introduce myself and Maddie properly on the General Board and will attach some photos of her.
Thanks for responding to my post... hope I haven't run on too much. But like I said earlier, this has been quite a ride.

[1Kiger]

Hi stlkigers,
Just saw your post after writing my "book." And I note your comment about your mare acting like an abused horse and with a fear of ropes. That was Maddie. The trainer who turned her around, in fact said she was one of the smartest horses she has trained, and because of that she would often fool people into being afraid FOR her. I have to say it gave me a sort of perverse pride to hear that. She has such a long memory... so she was often pulling out old fear behaviors to test us to see if we'd back off. But anyway, she needs a confident rider who will remain relaxed when she gets fearful, and then she actually becomes fearless. What is really interesting is that she has no fear of deer jumping out of the bushes, no fear of goats or alpacas. And unless I become nervous, she is now quick to accept man-made objects. I'm happy to say, my fear cycle is broken, so I can now laugh when she spooks and help her past it.