Chinook in training

[spanishsagegrullas]

"Toucan, I think you need to check back because I don't post on the E-Iberian board very much "

Toucan,

Regarding the E-Iberian post, it was actually a discussion between another member and myself that appeared last week on that list that Michelle's post here appeared quite similar to, so perhaps that is what you are thinking of. Here are relevant parts (sorry I don't know how to get this thing to indent and put it in another color):

This is what I was responding to-- they are talking about Andalusians and Lusitanos:

>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a fine line with this breed of horses. They are so giving and
>>> sensative and caring. IF you treat them with love and kindness you will get
>>> that back ten fold and be hooked forever. It is to bad people out there
>>> just
>>> use any trainer that think they are not wired different than other breeds.
>>> And they are wired differently. If you don't understand that you can surely
>>> ruin them and their giving trust.
>>>


This is what I posted:

> Now we are touching on a subject I have wanted to ask this list for a while
> now.
>
> Given that it seems agreed that the disposition is different, and that just
> any ole trainer may not do the horses justice, and in fact, harm them:
>
> What are the alterations or changes people have made in their training under
> saddle, and on the ground, and to tack? Specifics, if possible.
>
> For example, a while ago I was discussing this with a friend overseas. We were
> talking about the traditional "long and low" work to get horses to stretch and
> reach for the bit, then gradually bringing them in while working on increased
> collection. She said with these horses, they do not need to be made to go long
> and low, the are already balanced and collected, and that it could compramise
> them by making them very heavy on the forehand. She also mentioned that a lot
> of the Iberian horse have a shallow roof of their mouth, and go better in a
> french snaffle type (I think that's what its called, with the roller or flat
> middle piece) rather than a typical nut-cracker style snaffle.
>
> I found that with my own Kiger stallion, altho not a Lusitano or Andalusian,
> that due to that heritage, he has many of the same dispositional traits, and
> the QH style training he received via a local and well-refered trainer here
> started him down that battle of the wills and forced submission route which I
> eventually wised up to and took him away from. Even now, 3 years later, I hear
> tales about what she did to him at shows -- more than one person said they
> could not believe she just had him "out back beating the crap out of him" at
> his first show (ever) which he actually did very well at. Since I was living
> in a different state at the time, I had no idea all this was going on. It took
> a while to get the kind and willing, trusting, trying to please stallion back
> that I had when I sent him to her.
>
> I am very keen to learn what standard adjustments people find themselves
> making when working with these highly sensitive, intelligent and very capable
> horses.
>
> Diane P.
>

This is part of a response I got from another person:


>
>
> I love teaching these guys from the time they hit the ground and
> helping them learn manners, to trust humans, to calmly tie, to
> happily load and unload from a trailer, and so on.
. . .
>
> Every one of these horses has been different, so there's no ONE way
> of approaching them (at least not in my experience). What has worked
> for me is to treat each horse as an individual and to watch THEM for
> cues as to how things are going. In other words, I may start a
> session with a youngster wanting to accomplish a basic goal -- say,
> giving to the bit. And we'll work toward that goal. But I'm also
> watching the horse to see how he or she is reacting to the lesson.
. . .
>> So while it's important, as with any other endeavor, to have
> something of a plan, with these guys, it needs to be flexible and
> crafted (and timed) to suit the individual.
>
. . .
>
> The biggest mistake people make with these guys is killing them with
> totally unnecessary repetition (when they get it, move on). The
> second biggest mistake is rushing -- speed kills enthusiasm,
> motivation, willingness, and so on. And the third mistake is relying
> on mechanical devices -- this isn't training or teaching, it's
> nothing better than a lazy shortcut.
>


And my reply:


> Sounds to me like how every type of horse should be approached..
>
> Except for the repitition part. Practice makes perfect, but it has also been
> my experience that with these horses it can sooner lead to boredome,
> frustration, and then a disconnect in your training session. However, I often
> wonder how one tells whether it is an inability to stay focussed on one issue,
> or real boredom, of if the concept of inability to focus actually applies to
> horses in a training and learning a new move, concept, etc. For sure, the
> horses never get it perfect (or rarely) the first time, so one does need to
> repeat things, add new nuances, and progressions.


Diane P.

[DianneC]

Just a little about the bit, it is a Boucher, I think its pronounced booshea. The reason it was chosen for Chinny was that there is more room for the tongue. It doesn't operate on the bars but on the corners of the mouth. When I asked if it put pressure on the poll the answer was, "if I pulled on it, it would" the tone saying but I don't pull on it. There are lots of pictures if you google it. This one is a regular one with a snaffle-type joint but they come with french-link as well.
Diane, I've heard that Andalusians and Lusitanos have similar minds to the Kiger. If that is true then praise is a great motivator for learning. Severe methods, only make them fearful and mistrusting. Why anyone would want a horse like that is beyond me. I do think that repetition makes them dull, like their mind is in the next county.

[JoanMRK]

Well said Michelle!

[cherylw]

Here's to Diane and anyone else who is having FUN while working with their Kigers!

[DianneC]

An interesting update. Last week the trainer commented that Chinook had become heavy in her hands, even heavy on the lunge line. No temp, no lack of appetite. I always look for a physical cause first so I called the vet thinking perhaps of ulcers from being on medication so long. Lack of energy is typical of a recently gelded adult stallion I was told, his body is adapting to a decreasing amount of testosterone similar to menopause in women. Once the hormones level out then his energy should return. OK, that makes sense but what to do in the meantime?
Maryanne started riding Chinook "looking for a way to communicate with him". I asked today at my lesson how that went and she said very well. She took my hand and showed me the touch and release she used with him. She went on to say that it was the release that was critical and is part of each time the request is made - whether or not the horse responds! The cue doesn't increase in intensity or get held until he responds as I am so quick to do. But the cue remains the same and the dressage whip gives a tap to increase the intensity. That will be my lesson next week.