Mutton Withers

[JoanMRK]

I have someone who is looking at buying one of my horses... Etta to be exact. Anyway, she has posed the question of whether she is mutton withered or not? I am now second guessing myself, though I thought she wasn't as she has a lot more shape to her withers than some ponies I've seen who're mutton withered and some pics of Icelandics I found while searching on google. So, can any of you help out with this question? Here are some photos which I found show her withers best:

[JoanMRK]

Just wondering if I am losing my mind... I thought Nola posted here with a picture of Stormy. Why was it removed?

ETA: For the sake of not sounding paranoid... I was trying to look at it when my computer fritzed and kicked me out. So, I was wanting to read what she had said.

[fantasykiger]

Some people consider a mutton withered horse not so much a horse with none existant withers, but a horse with a flat wide back and low withers. So it would be something to consider when you think of saddle fit. I can see your Etta does have withers but they are not real pronounced. I can not tell if she has a peak to her back that would sit a saddle well and hold it in place or if she is flat. You could best answer that.

[JoanMRK]

Thanks Tiffany. I've always had it in my head that a mutton withered horse would have no withers at all, like a sheep. Etta does have that typical Kiger back, wide and flat so maybe she is considered mutton withered? Thank you for your input!

[pepper]

Looks like your girl has the "ez-keeper kiger curse" and while her withers are on the low side...with regular work under saddle they might appear higher.
Amigo has a 3 foot wide flat back & stays pretty round(does he have ribs? never seen them!) but he does have nice withers that hold a treeless saddle in place.
If she is ridden regularily & retains that shaped back,then,yes,those are mutton withers.

[nrly]

that is what I thought too Joan, my stormy has mitton withers and is really wide back..

[JoanMRK]

Thanks Pepper, for the input. I am going to try to get some better photos of Etta's withers tomorrow 5/29 and I would appreciate more help on the subject.

Also, I thought it was very common in the Kiger breed to have that wide flat back as I've heard many people report that their Kigers wear a very wide Full QH bar saddle on their horses. So... Is this a common thing in the Kigers? All of mine seem to fit the bill, maybe it's our California grass.

[DianneC]

Chinny has a back so wide that you could eat dinner off it, but he also has withers that go pretty far back into his back. His shoulders are so big and come up so high that having a wither doesn't help much for keeping a saddle in place. Most of my Kigers do have a flatter back but not to that extreme. Smoke is the only one who has the ability to use a semi-quarter tree.

[JoanMRK]

Dianne, can you clarify for me?

"Smoke is the only one who has the ability to use a semi-quarter tree."

Does that mean that the rest of your horses are in full quarter tree? And what extreme do you mean? To the extreme of Chinny's back? Thanks for your input too! ;D

Okay, I was sent a link to this picture showing a mutton withered horse. This is exactly how I pictured a mutton wither to look.




Here are some more examples of various backs:
www.american-flex.com/shim%20use.htm

[fantasykiger]

Oh boy..I would say that horse has no withers in your pic above, for sure. I am thinking breast collar and crupper are in order for that one, to keep a saddle in place.
Here is a side photo of Fantasy you can see she has a good set of withers to hold a saddle in place regardless she has an wider back. It only appears flat when she is heavier weight then she should be. When she is lighter, in shape and has regular work as she does now, full QH bars fit her well and I have no need for custom saddle, thankfully.

[JoanMRK]

Thank you Tiffany... She does have nice withers. I am thinking my horses are just plain ol' fat as they're out to pasture and haven't been worked. I got some more pics of Etta today and of Belle and Annie too so we can see that it is a regular problem around here. ;D LOL

[JoanMRK]

Okay, here is Etta today:







She was very hard to get pictures of with out help from someone holding her because she was always sticking her nose in my lens.

Here is Annie:


Here is Belle:

[DianneC]

Interesting site Joan, thanks! Smoke was really narrow in the shoulders when I got him but got more muscle with work. He started in a semi-quarter Circle Y and changed to a wade tree with a Won pad. He had a quarter horse Circle Y show saddle too. The wade didn't fit Chinny, I thought it would, but it wasn't wide enough in the back so the seat was higher in the back and lower in the front. The only thing I would say about Etta's wither is that it comes further back into her back. There's no dip behind her withers. That's a fairly common thing with Kigers I think, and it makes finding a saddle with the right rock harder.
The extreme I was talking about is the ability to eat dinner off Chinny's back without loosing your wine glass - so to speak. He is especially flat and wide in front of the loins, more of an upside down U instead of an A. None of the others are as flat, except Teanna perhaps.

[nrly]

I really could sleep on stormy's back she is wide, i need a beeper for her when she backs up..
Now Riddle we use a simi quarter tree on him he is narrow:

[DianneC]

Nola, you crack me up!