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Post by lindad on May 9, 2008 9:05:33 GMT -5
Please go to www.safergrass.org It is some of the best information that I have read on feeding horses and why we have so many metabolic disorders. I am starting with a new farrier who works with lamanitic horses to work with the donkey we got last year. Cola was going to be euthanized because a vet and 2 farriers told the owner that nothing could be done. My daughter, Lisa took him to Michigan State with the donkey rescue and they got his feet to almost normal shape. My farrier did not have a clue how to trim him to maintain the correction and they grow very fast. The new Farrier, Cliff, advised me to go to www.safergrass.org to understand how metabolic problems are becoming epidemic, and how to better manage equine nutrition. Given that our Kigers are air ferns this is vital information. Our pastures and our quality hay can be just as damaging as grains and other carbs because the sugars are so high. This site is loaded with research and important information! I now understand why our Kigers are getting so big! They are getting way too much sugar from their pasture and/or their hay, much like the obesity and the staggering incidence of diabetes in our children. Linda D |
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Post by zephyrcreek on May 9, 2008 17:34:32 GMT -5
Linda,
I have to agree. This is one of the things that concerns me about Zuni and my pony Pixie. Everyone else seems to do well on pasture 24/7, but those two just blow up like balloons. I've actually put everyone on dry lot right now, and have been feeding them hay. I had been considering letting them graze at night, and keeping them in during the daylight hours even before reading the article. I think it will do both the horses and the pasture a world of good. I have my own hay field, and would like to find a grass that would be better for my horses that will grow in this area. Any ideas???
Ellen
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Post by Michelle Clarke on May 9, 2008 22:13:49 GMT -5
Think about it...if mustangs had a problem with sugar in grass, they would be extinct. The problem stems from all the crap we feed them and the levels get high to begin with and the gut is not "up to par" to handle any more. That is when the "grass" becomes a problem - it does not start there. The molecular structure in grass sugar is much different than sweet feeds, corn, etc.
We did the gut conditioning and our horses are on pasture 24/7, no one is fat anymore (and we had some tubbies!), they look long legged, sleek and shine like new money! Have lots of energy and steam to work...no more "lamanitic episodes" (detoxing through the feet...you know, those rings on the hooves...!).
You can cause more problems in your horse by not having them move around and just standing eating hay. They need to move to process feed and stay healthy. I have been amazed at the problems that have disappeared just by getting the gut healthy so it can use all the available nutrients they are being fed. PLUS, most horses only getting 1-2 lbs. of concentrated feed per day...not the 10 lbs. those feed bags tell you!
The Kigers DO have metabolic issues...see other threads on this subject. I have had a nutritionalist out here that deals directly with these problems and she said our Kigers react differently to certain types of feeds/grasses than other horses (spanish and mustangs included).
Get the gut healthy, quit feeding all the crap feeds (like Purina...) and get into a more natural diet- high fiber and high fat...don't forget about protein for broodmares, breeding stallions, growing horses and working horses. Only feed chelated minerals and vitamins or else you are wasting your money and making expensive poop.
No alfalfa for our Kigers! No carrots! No sweet treats!
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Post by lindad on May 11, 2008 8:33:34 GMT -5
Think about it......mustangs in the wild are not eating hybridized grasses intended to fatten cows or grasses developed by man to survive the intensive grazing in small pastures that horse owners often have, that store the sugar reserves to try to survive. The problems are related to the non-structured carbohydrates (NSC) that are abundant in grasses developed for intensive farming and cash profits. The very time of day that hay is cut can dramatically effect the level of NSC in your hay. The NSC levels in grasses vary throught the day and are impacted by temperature, light, length of the grass and maturity. In climates that have cool nights and dew, the hay isn't cut until afternoon when the NSC sugar levels are high. Wild horses eat throughout the day and it balances out and they are always moving. NSC levels in cut hay will be consistent and fed to the domestic horse for as long as that supply lasts. What happens if the hay was cut when the NSC level were at their peak? The author suggests that we need to have our hay and pastures tested to measure NSC levels and mineral content, and to consider varieties that have lower levels of NSC especially if they have any of the metabolic issues that plague our domesticated horses, and suppliment only for the minerals deficient in that particular sample.
If Kigers have metabolic disorders, it may be due to the fact that they have evolved to survive on meger means, and our lush hay, hybridized grasses, grasses the have environmental stress including overgrazing may be one more contributing factor, as well as the grains and other junk feed, especially if they are not put to work most days. Many of us have horses that are not working daily and are becoming obese which eventually can lead to other metabolic problems.
There is so much information that I am trying to process that this site gave me cause to consider; things that normally are overlooked. I regret my title for this thread, because the suggested site is about feeding, metabolic disorders are symptoms of imbalance.
Linda D
It appears that you responded to my previous post without actually reading any of the numerous articles and information presented in this website. I continue to suggest that there is excellent information that one might want to consider to understand how grasses and hay, lack of balanced minerals, and feedstuffs are impacting our horses, as well as suggestions for correcting it. Michelle, the information actually compliments all that you have been promoting.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on May 11, 2008 14:17:11 GMT -5
Linda, if you look on another thread in this catagory (air-ferns...), I posted the same website. Yes, there is a TON of information on there and lots of food for thought. There are also lots of things that stress grasses out in the wild and cause sugar imbalances....I surely am not arguing that it is not a good site with great info, just that it is important to keep things in perspective. There are plenty of things we need to worry about as horse owners and what time of day that the hay was cut is not one of them that I fret over, because it is something I can't do anything about!
The point is the horses have to be fed in a way that controls insulin levels or at least does not add to it, as it is a holistic approach, not just focused on the grasses they eat per se. The nutrition thing is something that is still a journey for me and most likely always will be! However (like most of us I am sure), we don't put that much thought into our own nutrition as we do our horses!
I have done and still am going through a very involved and expensive gut conditioning program for our horses here. The feed alone costs me almost $40 per 50 lb. bag. I have seen some good results, but I still see alot of room for improvement. Our Kigers are different (being both wild and of spanish type), so alot of information that is coming to light, does not affect the Kigers like it does some other breeds. Just like different races of people have different needs and metabolic issues, so do our breeds of horses. They really need a high fiber/forage diet.
My head spins. Linda, from all the information I have taken in over the last 6 months on dealing with the metabolic issues of our horses. Just learning about how the feed is REALLY proccessed, regulated (NOT), "quality" levels, mineral/vitamin sources and absorption (chelated really is the only way they do not cancel each other out....then only if the gut is healthy do they acutally get to utilize them!) - the list goes on!
So, what do we do? Keep our horses on dry lots, feed steamed hay, soaked beet pulp (which good luck finding one without molasses or pestacides on it), expensive chelated minerals, ionized additives to every bucket of water to take the metals out (oh and DON'T use metal troughs and the plastic ones have thier own issues too!), electrolites summer and winter (not the cheap orange kind that is all sugar anyway), natural salts, prebiotics daily to balance the ph because it changes from every pasture, every hour or each flake of hay....
Not directing that at you personally, Linda, it is just I am in the middle of this road right now and am exhausted mentally from all the can't won't don'ts and yeah-but maybes! It is not simple and yes, knowledge is power and I am all for everyone learning to make things the best we can for our horses, but that is the bottom line really - the best we can. No perfect situation exsists and that is just the plain reality of it all!
With that said (can you tell I am frustrated with all the feeding stuff lately?!?!?!), I would welcome a great discussion on this subject!
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