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Post by skybar on Jan 22, 2008 21:38:26 GMT -5
The thread this was supposed to refer to is now locked, but I did want to post my thoughts on what was said.
Michelle posted:“Everyone who breeds, does maintain a stud book so to speak, especially if you own a stallion.”
Michelle,
Yes, this is true; it’s also called proper record keeping. This was not the intent of the original question.
“In other countries a Stud is a ranch or facility that has a breeding operation.”
Last I checked New Mexico was still a part of the United States, so how does this apply here, other than to just confuse Nola more.
“‘…so you better belive they have their own stud books....it does not have to be registered anywhere, it is a way of keeping information on your program.”
Any reputable breeder already does this.
“I have seen a few breeding farms in which the breeder has passed away, and they have dozens of horses with no way to know which horse is which or the bloodlines - it is a big mess.”
Looks like evidence of bad record keeping on their part. Guess they didn’t live near a Wal-Mart to get a notebook.
“Since I do not belong to any Kiger registries so to speak, I am wondering if breeders are required to submit a Stallion Report each year?”
You honestly are not posting this question Michelle? Please tell me that this is a response to someone else’s’ post ‘cause if it isn’t, Good Grief, and you’re trying to set up a registry and do not know the answer to this fundamental question.
Okay, I will try to answer this question to the best of my ability. If you want your foals to be registered in their respective breed registry, yes, you will need to submit a stallion report to that registry along with the appropriate fees. On that report you will list the stallion’ name and registration number, and then below that list the mares name, her registration number, her owners name that is listed on her papers at the time of breeding, the breeding dates and whether it was live cover or AI.
On a side note: I am disappointed to see my responses to Nola were removed. She posed this question several times on two boards for several weeks and nobody chose to answer her. I made my post and all of a sudden there is a flurry of help and advice for Nola. Well if anything Nola my strong post at least got you some comments finally on what you have been asking for.
Kara
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jan 22, 2008 22:01:07 GMT -5
Kara, I am not sure what your reason is for the sarcasm in your posts, but this board is a place where Kiger people can get together, network, share information and maybe learn something along the way without feeling threatened or silly. There are plenty of other places for that.
While I appreciate that we all have different views and opinions, people will be more open to suggestions when they are presented in a way that does not make someone get defensive right off the bat.
As far as the original post, I would not venture to say what another persons' intention is when they ask a question, that is for them to state - not for us to interpret.
Yes, I honestly posted that question (considering what a shambles the Kiger registries are....), and I am NOT starting a registry. I am interested in starting a group of Kiger folks with the same goals in mind. If we decide we can join up with the Iberian Society, then that is up to them how they set it up, not me. And it will be up to the people who get involved if that is what they want to do.
I mentioned what a "Stud Book" really is, it is record keeping for a STUD (meaning breeding operation), not a particular stallion. That is the orgination of the term.
Sorry you got offended that I pulled your posts, but I felt they were mean-hearted and no one wants to read that. We would welcome any helpful information you could share!
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Post by skybar on Jan 22, 2008 23:44:21 GMT -5
“Kara, I am not sure what your reason is for the sarcasm in your posts, but this board is a place where Kiger people can get together, network, share information and maybe learn something along the way without feeling threatened or silly.”
I didn’t necessarily see my 1st post as sarcasm, a little snarky maybe, but no one was answering her question between the 2 boards. One she has posed a couple times before this latest one. I bet she learned something though. Now my second post was a little more direct, I will give you that, but I was trying to make my thoughts crystal clear because they did not seem to get through the first time.
“While I appreciate that we all have different views and opinions, people will be more open to suggestions when they are presented in a way that does not make someone get defensive right off the bat.”
Well, if someone would have answered her question before this point, I may not have posted at all. I believe breeding animals should be held to the highest of standards, and yes I get a bit defensive about it. Thanks for caring. When we decide to control their outcomes, the horse no longer has much of a choice in it. I believe anyone who is going to undertake the responsibility of breeding an animal, must attain the best education he or she can, to do what is best for the horse, not their heart, pocket book or ego.
“As far as the original post, I would not venture to say what another persons' intention is when they ask a question, that is for them to state - not for us to interpret.”
I feel her intention was clear based on the fact she did not ask about opening a stud book in Europe. I feel it was safe to assume she was speaking about the USA.
“Yes, I honestly posted that question (considering what a shambles the Kiger registries are....),
So you mean to say you are selling unregistered foals? I was under the impression that you were a top notch breeder. You are unaware of the proper paperwork to submit to a registry of your choice? I am very surprised by that. I think your right, I did learn something today.
“…and I am NOT starting a registry. I am interested in starting a group of Kiger folks with the same goals in mind. If we decide we can join up with the Iberian Society, then that is up to them how they set it up, not me. And it will be up to the people who get involved if that is what they want to do.”
My apologies, association, I stand corrected. I’m not sure if you have gotten this far in the planning process but, will you be asking for people to list their horses’ pedigrees with this new group? If so, how are you going to verify their information? I admit I know nothing of the Iberian Society; will they not want verification of the above information? Please fill me in.
“I mentioned what a "Stud Book" really is, it is record keeping for a STUD (meaning breeding operation), not a particular stallion. That is the orgination of the term.”
I am quite aware of the term and its origins. I again will state that I feel this might have confused Nola more. Maybe other people on the board were unaware of the original meaning though and they learned something today as well.
“Sorry you got offended that I pulled your posts, but I felt they were mean-hearted and no one wants to read that. We would welcome any helpful information you could share!”
Never was I offended, just disappointed that the posts were pulled. I feel the true spirit of the thread might be lost in their not being there. I also feel there was plenty of good information especially in the end of my first post that would have been useful to everyone, but that is just my opinion. I did not feel they were mean-hearted, strongly worded yes, but not down right mean. I feel the information was helpful, but maybe not perceived that way by everyone. If we all agreed, what a boring place this would certainly be.
Kara
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Post by DianneC on Jan 23, 2008 0:52:22 GMT -5
One of the things that we treasure about this board is being able to post without people being sarcastic or "snarky". I make dumb mistakes, being blonde is my excuse and sometimes it works well. But that's OK with the people on this board and its why Nola and I can ask dumb questions without being fearful of responses like yours. But you've been very unkind and I think you owe both Nola and Michelle an apology. If you LIKE to be critical and caustic in the process of giving information feel free to find a board that appreciates it.
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Post by skybar on Jan 23, 2008 1:23:22 GMT -5
Dianne,
I do not LIKE to be critical and caustic. That is never my first choice, at least not out loud. Some times circumstances require it though. I still do not feel my posts are at the level you are stating though. I would love to be able to be in a forum that has free flowing ideas and information. Everybody makes dumb mistakes. My concern for Nola was the possibility that her mistakes could get her seriously hurt. I have read her posts over the past several months, and I personally see a train wreck coming. I have seen similar scenarios before. Am I wrong in offering my opinion which could avert that? Most of you have seen it as well and have said very little if anything to “help her”. I will not apologize for my thoughts and opinions. I am sorry that some of you (I have received PM’s from others stating they feel the same way I do.) have been unable to see outside of the box, but I can’t control how other people think and feel, I can only control me.
Kara
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Post by desperatehorsewife on Jan 23, 2008 8:44:37 GMT -5
Kara, I totally agree that there's too much breeding going on. I think the words did cut a bit further than perhaps you'd intended considering they were directed at one person.
I'm pretty much against breeding unless you've got something more than just a nice, pretty horse, and that goes double for mustangs (kigers included.) Pretty is in the eye of the beholder, and nice can be adopted for $125. Being new to the kiger community, I'm sure I didn't make any friends right out of the box with my statements when I showed up here. While I'm sure there may have been some who took my comments personally, they weren't directed at any one person, but more general in nature.
I think a lot of the discussion regarding what makes a horse worthy of breeding is going to be the best way to educate new owners and people who have a desire to breed. I, personally, would love to see photos of different heads, shoulders, body profiles...all that good stuff...so that people can evaluate and others can learn from those more experienced. That may at least give people something to strive for.
But you're right, Kara; barn blindness is a terrible thing and I believe we all have it to some extent.
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