Sorraia article

[kigerfan]

Then again, what is 'found blood' really. From all that I've read, there was a good amount of shifting of horses on four different HMAas to begin with. The kiger range only had something like seven original horses and they were "not as good quality" as horses from another range, so those horses from that other range that showed the best primitive markings and stature were moved onto the kiger range. Since some of these original horses came from these other ranges where the 'found blood' horses came from later, do they not all have pretty much the same ancestors?

[DianneC]

Here is Teanna, the oops baby out of Tia and Chinook. A happy accident. She has 3/4 of her genes from Tia and can give us a look at what Tia might have looked like at age 2.

[kigerfan]

Is she still around to get clearer and flat standing pictures of her?

[DianneC]

Kigerfan,
Once the horses from Beatty's Butte were added other horses (except for two? maybe I'm remembering Riddle) were removed from the Kiger HMA. The horses across the ravine in Smyth Creek were removed later for fear they would mix with the horses from Beatty's Butte. Jillian has a full history on here somewhere. It starts with horses that were present on the HMAs before the Kigers were added. There were other horses added to the herds over the years but the numbers were small and some were removed later if they didn't produce the desired type of foals.

[kigerfan]

Teanna is beautiful
The question on the flat standing and clearer was of course for the picture post before Teanna

[DianneC]

Here is one from two years ago, she is 25 now and I don't think current pictures would tell much about how she used to look.

[kigerfan]

There were two mares that were left on the kiger range that originated there. The others were from Beatty's Butte. I know the Smyth Creek were removed because there was but a fence line between them and it was figured they might mix. I know there have been authorized and unauthorized mixing of horses on all ranges, I just don't much understand the whole thing of calling a horse found blood that has Beatty's Butte blood when the fact of the matter is that they all but two originated from Beatty's Butte. I've done as much reading as I possibly can on this. I've done hours upon hours of searching online for any and all history I can find on the origination of the herds. Most everything I can find says basically the same thing but doesn't go heavily into the innerworkings of the transfers of horses from HMA to HMA. It's kind of frustrating because I really would like to understand it all.

[DianneC]

"calling a horse found blood that has Beatty's Butte blood" Not sure what you meant by this? The horses that are found are horses that were registered from other areas by the KMA in the early days. Not horses that were added to the Kiger or Riddle HMAs. The reasoning was that what the BLM added to the herds (and these were VERY few) were Kigers because the BLM said they were. So found only applies to privately owned horses. The thing that is a grey area for me is that the BLM would notify the KMA when spanish type dun horses were captured from other HMAs and give them first choice to adopt them. This was done by members of the KMA, including Rick, and they were to have temporary status in the KMA until they proved out by producing Kiger-type foals. It was only when one of the KMA members pulled a fast one by selling a dun mustang stallion as a Kiger for big bucks and then influencing a vote to accept all the temporary horses as permanent to cover his tracks that the * hit the fan. There were also people getting dun mustangs from pretty far away, a couple from Nevada and one from California approved. That's when Rick left to form the SMKR.

[kigerfan]

Ahhh okay, I thought I read somewhere that some Beatty's Butte horses were being considered 'found blood'. I know of the instance you speak as far as the stallion. I know there are a bunch on the Nevada HMA that would look like Kigers.

[lindad]

Most of the FOUND horses did not even originate from Oregon! Sure the horses that were found in nearby areas could be related. The one that went for "big bucks" did. He came from Sheepshead, if memory serves, and has more dun factor than I have ever seen on another horse. The owner was duped, and his records were falsified and she did not find out for several years, that he was not part of the original Kiger group. Mustangs with Spanish influence can be found in various places, and may be just as Spanish but they are not part of the group that came to be known as Kigers.
If we think about it, BLM was/is not into breeding. It was a few men within the BLM that had a passion for these horses and an idea. Obviously, the current management is not so inspired. I think that Kiger breeders have benefited from a gravy train of continuous Kiger blood, that may have suddenly taken a nose dive (I'm waiting to see how they look when back in condition, but that won't change bad legs, cow hocks, etc.). BLM adoptions are to provide homes for excess horses not create more breeding horses, by suppling breeders with new stock to their specifications. But hey, BLM got more for them than any other mustang, so it helped to offset some of their expences. Bureau of LAND Management is about use of the land, horses are just part of that equation.
The story was that pockets of uniform Spanish trait, dun horses were discovered and believed to be "survivors" of those brought by the conquistadors, as it was well known they had explored the area. As the story goes it was because of their isolation and uniformity that these horses were gathered and managed, to preserve the Spanish mustang, as part of our history, because an individual in the BLM was inspired to do so and had the means to do it.
So adding dun factor horses from other regions and other states became the bone of contention when private INDIVIDUALS began adopting duns from other places and then falsifing records as to origin and changing the rules in the KMA to include them. BLM never said the founds were Kigers, they just sold dun horses to their best dun horse customers. BLM has nothing to do with what KMA does. KMA has the right to include whatever horses they want into their breed registry, BUT, no one should have the right to hide or to misrepresent the origin of the horse, and lead people to believe they were part of that original group when they are not!
BLM does not have to satisfy what the Kiger registries or breeders want unless they want to sell a particular group of mustangs for continuing high prices, and want to continue the goal to preserve the Spanish Mustang as a herd. KMA was created by individuals wanting to start a breed based on those originally discovered Spanish mustangs from the BLM. Some did not stick to that goal and became manipulative and deceitful about it. Had it remained above board and managed to assure that the founds proved themselves and they were catalogued as to origin, there would likely be just one registry, and we would probably not be having these discussions. Some of the founds are excellent, even superior horses. If founds were included to expand the gene pool, deceite would not have been needed.
Linda D

[kigerfan]

I really think they should just point score the horses and accept it and get on with it.

[dmr]

I wish I had a really good conformation shot of Sitara. Unless people are familiar with Kigers, they aren't sure of what she is. She is grulla color and compact, but not extremely. QH people love her but think she has a refined, petite build. Dressage people love her movement, although she isn't super animated. She has no real defined look. Maybe that is what attracted me to her so much. She isn't "Iberian" but she isn't stock horse either.

She is Kiger. It is almost like an attitude, she can be what ever I turn her into. I know it has been said they are extremely versatile but that really cannot be stressed enough. I ride western and english. I trail ride, I do a bit of jumping and occasionally I game with the kids. While I am just training her, I cannot wait for the coming year to see what she does.

I took Sitara in a Suitability for Dressage class, in hand, and the judge loved her look. But mostly, I think it was the way she just took it all in stride with her black mane flowing and her head tucked under. Then last week I rode her home, her 3rd mounted ride, in a halter and lead rope as she jumped my fence and I didn't feel like walking in the snow. She was totally ok with it. She has also cleared her paddock gate so I know she can jump!

What I am so poorly saying is it just depends on what you are looking for when you look at her. She doesn't have the super fine bone, nor the heavy bone. One time I think she has heavier bone, then I see her from a different angle and think, hmmm, not so much. I thought she had a short neck but then when I actually measure it, not so much.

So, Spanish? Sorraia? I vote for Kiger. It just is what it is. Just like with all other breeds, there will be variance. I prefer a well muscled, slightly more modern look but do not want to loose the look of the Kiger. I do think that there should be room in the registry for them with a special designation for breeding quality. Let's be honest. Not every horse, no matter how much we love it, nor how sweet it is, how good of a horse it is, should be bred. There are some that should not be bred. I am not saying that based on color, I am saying that based on real conformation faults. If you disagree with me, just go look at the local Auction. There are Registered animals going through every weekend that are true culls that never should be bred. There are unregistered grade horses that are being bred just because someone owns a stallion and that doesn't help any one in the horse industry.