Kiger genetics?

[fantasykiger]

Check out what I found while surfing around on the net. Now I do not know the first thing about genetics don't even know where this came from originaly, I found it on a obscure article describing what is a Kiger Mustang? I thought I would bring it over here and see what you all could make of it, as I found very interesting if nothing else.

Genetics:

The Genetics of the Kiger Mustang shows a high percentage towards both the Spanish breeds and the non Spanish breeds. Upon further studies on their genetics, the Kiger Mustang was placed into the Light Riding Breed Group, right outside the Iberian breed group. This fact has made the Kiger Mustang a non Spanish breed of horse but rather a beautifully colored light riding breed. The other breeds of horses that are also in this group are: Quarter Horse, Thoroughbred, Saddlebred, Arabian, <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Rocky </st1:PlaceName><st1:PlaceType>Mountain</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, etc.

[desperatehorsewife]

Hmmm....very interesting. Where did you find it?

[desperatehorsewife]

Found it.

groups.msn.com/NEWMBA/whatisakigermustang.msnw

[desperatehorsewife]

Haven't read this one yet but looks like it may be of interest as well.

www.dungenes.org/breeds/kiger_mustang.htm

[fantasykiger]

desperatehorse wife ..... if you click on the link you provided and then click on 'Mestana Family' there you find all them gray Kiger Mustangs, Big Indian is Fantasy's sire. That was very interesting to see all them horses in one place on one site.

[lwood92]

Big Indian was a nice looking horse!

[Michelle Clarke]

First let me say that I don't know who wrote that or their qualifications, so keep that in mind.

Second, there is ALOT of jealousy with other "spanish" mustang groups with the Kiger because of all the hype and publicity that surround them, so keep that in mind.

I know there are more qualified folks on here to explain this, but let me say that by following only dna, it is pretty hard to get a full genetic picture. The only dna that can be tested is the maternal line (dams' side). This dna does not change, it is the same for always. When you see a spanish marker next to a draft marker, you can't know which one was there first or in how much percentage. You also don't know if the sire was a buffalo, because you can't test the male side of the dna.

There are three things that figure into what a horse really is: dna or genetics, known history and phenotype (what the horse looks like). You cannot go on one thing alone. So, while the Kiger is at the top of the Light Saddle Horse, the next horse down is a Saddlebred - the next horse up is an Iberian (will see if I can find the rest of the denogram, as folks like to leave THAT part off!). It would be a hard venture to say our Kigers have much in common in the direction of a Saddlebred!

Being a wild horse, yes, there is going to be other genetic influences. How can there not be? It does not mean there is Saddlebred in the Kiger, just that they share some of the same genetic markers. For examples sake: the Saddlebred could have spanish markers back 1000 yrs. The Kiger could have them back 100 yrs, meaning the relation is closer to the population now. With dna, you can't tell a genetic timeline.

If anyone knows better, please correct me!

[desperatehorsewife]

I think the Y chromosome can be traced, at least it's possible in humans so I don't know why it wouldn't be in horses. Then again, I'm not a scientist...

This is an interesting link that may shed a little light on dna:
blairdna.com/dnafaq.html


From another message board:

Riddle did exist before and in fact "Kiger" Type horses were found there (1975-76) before the Beattys Butte animals were found. Per the documents those original horses were returned to Riddle and the decision was made to maintain Riddle for this type of horse. They were unable to completely clear Riddle of non-spanish type horses so the years up to the early 90s yielded mostly non spanish types being adopted out to clear out the HMA. In the 90s we start seeing the numbers of Kiger type comming off Riddle increasing in the adoption. This is all from the BLM documents.

Perhaps this could explain non-spanish type markers showing up in some of the earlier horses?

[DianneC]

I was at the lecture given by Dr. Gus Cothran on Kiger genetics. He said that the Kiger was related to Spanish horses and also to the horse breeds developed in America. Saddlebred, Standardbred, Morgan, etc. The first conclusion would be that there were these breeds in the Kiger's lineage. But when I asked if the results could be from shared ancestors he said that was also a possible explanation as Michelle has mentioned. I don't know Morgan history well, but I have heard that there might be mustang in JM's close background. The likelihood of American breeds having Spanish mustang or Spanish horses in their lines seems high to me.

[Michelle Clarke]

desperatehorsewife said:

Perhaps this could explain non-spanish type markers showing up in some of the earlier horses?

Well, I belive the non-spanish type markers come from the fact that Kigers have evolved, they are not what they were when they "came off the boats" so to speak! The Kiger and the Saddlebred are not related because they are the same, they are related because they share some of the same genetic background. It is a perfect example of how misleading this can all be. Who would ever say a Saddlebred looked Spanish, and who could say a Kiger looked like a Saddlebred?!

From a genetic standpoint, the Kiger is not all totally spanish/iberian.

From the history we know they are a wild animal that has evolved through procreating with whatever horses were available: whether it was a horse the Conquistadors rode, the ranchers worked cattle with or the farmer pulled a plow with.

From the phenotype, we have a basic spanish/iberian horse, but we also see other influences such as QH and draft.

[DianneC]

Ron Harding said he thought they came from favorite horses brought up from California by the vaqueros when the ranches in the area were established. This area was once known for all its dun wild horses.
Horses back then were often turned out on the range and brought in so the colts could be broke to ride. Sometimes a domestic stallion would be put out to get a different type. A good read is "Smoky, the Cow Horse" by Will James. I also have a copy of "The Mustangs" by J. Frank Dobie. He tells of a common practice of running a wild herd until the foals drop out because they can't keep up. Seeking any horse for protection, they would following the riding horses back to the ranch where they were easily tamed. I've always wondered if the foundation QHs have these ranch horses in their background.

[lwood92]

Dianne,

I think you are right about the QH. I have heard there is a line of thought that the QH get their "cow sense" from the Lusitano. Of course, I believe that Paso Fino's are used to work cows in their native countries. Michelle, correct me if I am wrong.

Lynn

[Michelle Clarke]

Yes, the Pasos work cattle. The Columbian breeders put back in a Lusitano stallion every nine generations into the Paso Fino lines....the foals are registered purebred, BTW.

[pepper]

I seem to be reading that some people are refering to Kigers as "wild " animals but technically,they are feral,not wild.These are off-spring of domestically bred horses imported to the Americas by the Spanish (& later,others)The truely "wild" equines in North America had long died off before humans arrived.Oh...and I believe the earliest of them were bays....to help them hide from predators in the forest environment of the continent.The duns & striped equines evolved in the dryer desert climates.