Interesting research on Vaccinations

[Michelle Clarke]

www.wingedwolf.citymax.com/page/page/1303049.htm

[angelsdream]

How does everyone vaccinate there horse's? What all do you vaccinate for? Just wondering. I do west nile virus every year, given that I live down here in GA, the summers here are mosquito's haven, and Rhino virus.

[desperatehorsewife]

From what I've read concerning WNV vaccines, I'll take my chances with the disease. Seems that healthy horses without the vaccination have just a good of chance of recovery as those who've had it.

I heard this past summer that vets are now saying we've been over vaccinating our horses. They knew it, but for insurance reasons still had to tell people otherwise. I hate insurance almost as much as I hate tax dollars

Anyway, my horses get the three-way flu/tet/rhino, but nothing else. I suppose if I were to be hauling I'd be doing strangles as well; I may start doing that this year as I hope to start hitting the trails this summer.

[lwood92]

Regarding Flu, my understanding is that the Flu vac for horses is perpared quite like the one for people. They make the vac according to what they "think" are going to be the active strains of flu that year. It is all a guessing game, plus flu is treatable so, JMHO. I think we (as in society) over vac way to much. I think less is more in this case. Again, JMHO.

Oh, I forgot, I have had vets tell me that Flu/Rhino don't work unless you vac every 4 mo. for it.

[nrly]

I call my vet and they get 5 in one twice a year. I would do it but since I have him out 2 times to float one of my horse's teeth, I just add that so I know they all get vaccinations.
nola

[Michelle Clarke]

We don't vaccinate at all...I could go on for pages, but a big reason is that every vaccine has mercury in it, which is not only dangerous and leads to metal toxicity, but is linked to all kind of diseases in people such as ADD, ADHS, autism, etc.

The hind gut in the horse is surrounded by 85% of the immune system. When nutrition is poor or the hind gut is not up to par, the immune system must deal with all the problems and try to kick it out of the system. The problem is the system is too overloaded and can't deal with it, so the horse gets sick.

Most viruses and parasites enter the body through the gut (like EPM) and the hind gut cannot deal with it, so it shoots it out into the blood stream. If the hind gut is healthy, there is no way that a parasite could cross over the blood/brain barrier. The body is set up to manage most bacteria and viruses, agian through poor nutrition, stress, ulcerations, etc., the body gets overloaded and the horse gets sick.

If you looked at the pictures from the Kigers when they were first rounded up, you will see most have a "heave" line on the stomach (not heaves!). This is the hind gut in major protest due to stress and having only alfalfa being the only source of nutrition with all the nutrients out of balance, not to mention the high protein which they are not meant to handle.

Anyone that got a Kiger there should assure themselves that they have ulcers. This is easily dealt with naturally too. Some GOOD digestive enzymes and Aloe gel will greatly improve this condition.

[angelsdream]

You know I did hear that the other day on the news about how they are researching all the vaccinationing causing autism in children. that's so scary.....

[nrly]

so in other it is like words like the old time ranchers have said: let it all run it course they can take care of themselves if they are healthy, if it gets worse then call the vet. that is what we have heard from and old time cowboy. and reading about shots in children I am beginning to believe, did you know in Ireland they do not start a child on immunizations till they are 3. They believe that children have a natural immunity up to that age.
nola

[DianneC]

I do vaccinate my mares a month before they are due to give birth with 5 way so the foal will get those antibodies. I did the new WNV last February and had two mares abort within the next month - could be coincidence but that was a first for me so won't repeat it.
I thought that they didn't put mercury as a preservative in individual dose syringes so was using those, but recently found out they do use it. Why I don't know, use it once and throw it away. The incidence of ADD has decreased significantly since they stopped using it in children's inoculations. So I'm rethinking my plans. I will give 5 way if a horse is traveling and will keep up with the tetanus, but not sure about the rest.

[Michelle Clarke]

Sorry to hear that Dianne....that stuff scares the crap out of me. I did get nervous about two years ago with my western med vet telling me all this stuff about not vaccinating, considering we are in Texas and nothing dies off, so I chose to do about 6 horses with a five way (figure I would get the poisoning over all at once at a lower dose). Since then, Desi rubs out his mane and tail every year plus still has a huge bump where I gave it; one of the yearlings developed seasonal allergies (don't know if that is related, but she is the only one of that age group); the weanling I gave it to is the only one of that group that is always getting the snots (in fact, about two months after the shot, he got the snots and it took me three months to get rid of them trying many different, previously proven holistic methods) and every one of them has a big bump where the shot was. Never again. When horses get a "reaction" to the vaccination, they are reacting to the mercury, not the vaccine itself.

They are saying now that Tetnus lasts for 10 years after 3 yearly uses in a row. I keep the Tetnus antitoxin on hand (gives imediate coverage for five days), and will give that to anyone who gets a pretty deep scratch or puncture. Anything more than that, the first thing the vet does is give an extra tetnus - just in case - so I feel good about that scenerio.

Some folks who do buy my horses choose to vaccinate and they have all kinds of problems. Ora has NO mane and NO hair on her tail due to over vaccinating. Plus her neck is swollen and rock hard.

Hard to know what is right!

[nrly]

someone told me to vaccinate my mare too just before giving birth, I wont after i have read from here problems some mares had with aborting the foal, here is a question?

[Michelle Clarke]

I know it has been done forever, and there are plenty of times when giving vacs to mares before they foal will never have "problems" - I say that for the reason that just because you have a live foal on the ground does not mean there are no affects of the drugs.

When vacs are given, the body gets busy to attack anything "foreign" - this certainly can include that big parasite in the uterus! Even if it does not cause the fetus to abort, it is still under attack and causing stress. Not to mention you are taking away all the protection the unborn fetus has by the immune system by keeping it busy with something else, so if another bacteria or virus is just laying in wait, it is a very opportunistic time for that to take advantage.

I just don't mess with those mares in the last tri-mester. Heck, we go out of our way to keep the mares in as low-stress environment as possible through the whole thing. Especially our maiden mares, they put so much stress on themselves, that many first foals are a more nervous type because of the anxiety of the mare.

[DianneC]

Nola, this was the new West Nile Vaccine and the mares were at about 7 months. There are many reasons a mare can abort and I can't say for sure it was the vaccine. Two other mares with the same vaccine did not abort. For each vaccine you don't give you have to consider the consequences if the horse gets sick. One holistic vet said that she had never seen a horse die of flu but had seen one die of tetanus. So I will keep up the tetanus for sure.
I will still vaccinate my mares a month before they give birth because they give their antibodies to the foal when born and a foal is dependent on the mom's antibodies until they are old enough to make their own at about 7-9 months of age.
West Nile Virus has come to the NW but doesn't seem to be the scourge it was in other areas. WNV mostly kills older or debilitated horses. We have tons of mosquitoes though. The new vaccine gives MUCH better protection against WNV. So I will decide between doing a couple of things:
1) inoculate with the older WNV vaccine and do it just prior to warm weather once a year. This did not cause problems in other years.
2) Just do the non-breeding horses with the new vaccine once a year
3) Wait until there is a report of WNV in the area and then do the new vaccine
The reason that I haven't made a decision is that I haven't talked to my vet yet and need to do that before deciding what would be best. In your area you have different conditions and would do well to talk to your vet before making a decision.
I have a friend who has trouble making good decisions some times. I asked her to be there when the vet came for a minor thing with one of my horses and I had to be gone. When they were chatting the vet mentioned casually that she never blanketed her own horses. So this friend took all the blankets off all my horses after the vet left- and this was mid-February! You can't just decide to do something because someone says they do this or that. You have to get more information from people who understand your situation and then make a decision.
Here is an interesting article from Horse Journal
www.horse-journal.com/sample/Equine_Vaccines.html

[kigerfan]

If the horse has been blanketed, obviously it doesn't have the coat it would if it wasn't, so taking off the blankets at that time could have been a real bad thing for all concerned. We have maybe one case of WNV reported here a year. I don't worry about it too much.

[fantasykiger]

I give my horses the 5-way shot in the spring every year before riding season. I do give the pregnant mares the 5,7 and 9 month pneumabort K. I never give mares in foal the WNV but everyone else gets one once a year. I would rather not risk the cost of helping a horse thru' recovery of the WNV I have been witness thru another board of a horse going thru the virus. On several occassions the vet reccommended the colt be put down but the owners struggled thru the tuff times and he is well on his way to being a great horse, a year later. There is still more therapy to get him moving correctly but he will. I would much rather pay the cost of a vaccine that might work. I do trail ride with my horses and take them camping in differant terrain and areas other then the dry desert where we live. I also try to ride with friends and my horses are spending more time with other horses. I am knocking on wood here but I have been real lucky that my horses have never been real sick other then the occasional runny nose. (I am excluded Fantasy and her messed up sinsus cavity). My Warm Springs Mustang mare has never even had that, that horse is easy and cheap to keep no vet bills from ever being sick.