Idea

[vaquero7x]

Hello all! I was thinking about an idea that has been in my mind for some time and I wanted to read some opinions. What if there were an association that registered pure kigers and also had a special category for Kiger/Lusitano crosses and call them Kiger Appendix for example. Why the Lusitano? as you know, there is similarity between the Kiger and the Iberian breeds. Also, the Lusitano, when well bred, is one of the finest saddle horses in the world, admired by the best trainers around the globe. Also, the Kiger would be improved and color would be no problem. Kigers would be palomino, gray, brown etc. The price would also increase and perhaps more international recognition. All this would not interfere with the KMA or other registries so the purity of the Kiger would not be at risk. There are many breeds that have been improved with other breeds. The warmbloods have thoroughbred and so does the quarter horse and the Arabian has been used on nearly every breed in history. I would like to read some opinions, thank you.

[Michelle Clarke]

I do agree with you on many levels...but being as I have done this cross quite a bit, I will say it has to be the "right" Lusitano. They tend to be hotter, so they are really not very amature horses - the hotter disposition with the Kiger smarts! One of the things I experienced was that many got the saddle horse mentality. The Kigers are obviously not bred for saddle work, whereas the Luso has been for many many generations. Put a saddle are rider on and they are ready to go; they seem to know what it is all about and are ready to go.

Also, you have to pick Lusos' with Iberian conformation and not the new modern, dressage build. You'll get a hodgepodge of foals with no unity or predictability.

I have some first generation that are half and half and some that are 3/4 Kiger and 1/4 Luso. In the near future, I will have some 1/4 Kiger and 3/4 Luso - it will be interesting to see the difference. My second generation I have now tend to be easy to get along with like the Kiger disposition. Won't have any under saddle for another two years, so I can't speak from that aspect yet. They are sure easier to handle in general than the half and half; much more adaptable. One thing I noticed is the first generations don't mind being in a stall, so they might work well for folks who board and have limited turnout - as long as they actually work them regularly. They seem to like the comfort and familiarity of it. The Kigers, of course, can't be cooped up for too long!

[gotkiger]

I like this as well and must agree with Michelle that it has to be the right horses to cross with. That being said I don't think my cross with an Andi turned out half bad. But you and everyone else out there can be the judge on that. Michelle has an amazing program that I can't wait to see what comes next year and so on ...

[Michelle Clarke]

I am going to be honest with the subject of the Andalusian. First, they do not have a high health constitution. All the vets and bodyworkers I have talked to on the subject of Andis, says not to put them into the breeding program. They have many genetic issues that weaken the system. They are super prone to melanomas and interestingly enough, even the grey Lusitanos don't have that problem often. I sure don't know of any grey Kigers with them...

Secondly, the genetically have weak backs and flat croups. Their angles are built for up and down movement, which further weakens the skeletal system.

Lastly, they have no work ethic. They are great for amature owners who want to putz around, ride on the weekends, etc. That is why so many beginners have stallions - they are low testosterone and easy to handle. Try to put them to a hard work program and they rebel big time. The Lusitanos are bred to be a saddle horse and work. That is the biggest and most important difference there is.

I have bred and raised Arabians, PREs' (the Spanish Andalusians), Lusitanos and now the Kigers. There are big differences and very important ones that need to be considered before just randomly cross breeding.

On a side note - there are Andis in Spain and some lines that have been bred by Lusitano breeders that are different. They are extrememly few and far between here in the states and the blood is getting diluted with all the long haired, fancy stepping lines.

[kimk]

Keep in mind that these crosses can already be registered as half Kigers in most (I can only speak for KMA) if not all of the current Kiger registries without any color restrictions. So there is really no need for yet another registry.

[gotkiger]

Thank you Michelle, and i do agree. Being able to go back i would have bred to a luso instead of the andi. More information and knowledge has flooded into my lap over the past two years, and i have learned from my mistakes. I do hope that Frodo will be graced with his mothers health and strength.

[Michelle Clarke]

Frodo is far from a mistake and there are two ways you learn: one is from your own doings and being willing to honestly look at what is in front of you and two is to learn from others who have been there, done that and then actually take the advice! It is all about growth and being open to change...

[vaquero7x]

Hello to All! I agree Michelle that the Luso is not for everyone--they are superb saddle horses but only for the people that are familiar with the culture in which they were bred: the bullfighting culture among other things, and also the type of Lusitano used should be the original baroque type of horse such as the Manuel Veiga lines and not the modern type like you correctly mentioned. In response to some people that are concerned about the dilution of the Kiger. Have we not claimed that the Kiger descends from the Iberian breeds? Were they no tested for DNA evidence that they are indeed of "Spanish" origin? then we should not fear the idea for accepting Lusitano stallions to be added as this would only bring the Kiger back to the original genetic pool. Also, this would not endanger the Kiger because we would still have controlled breeding among pure Kigers. I have a lot of respect for the other registries as my mares are registered with the KMA. The best breeds in the world have been improved with other breeds, and Yes there are crosses accepted but that means that any cross is accepted in order to call it half kiger, but with this new association we would only accept the Lusitano working baroque horse and no other breed in the world and it would still be called a Kiger and not a cross but an appendix Kiger. The vision of such an association would be to have a top level horse for classical dresssage, working equitation, bullfigthing etc.

The holsteiner association has accepted thoroughbred, and Selle Francais in their breeding programs and still call the offspring Holsteiners and not crosses and by doing this Germany has been winning many of the gold medals in international Jumping and dressage. The quarter horse also gained speed and athleticism by adding thoroughbreds. Other associations have accepted the Arabian to improve bone and stamina. What are your opinions?