Bay dun?

[horses4ever]

Ok so I am having a discussion on another site about wether or not there is such a colour as bay dun. I'm told mouth to mouth that it doesn't exist, but on the site everybody says it does, and that it exists in Kigers and Nokotas too.
I was wondering what you guys think

[DianneC]

There is a sooty gene, also called counter-shading, that puts back black into the coat. It's not understood really well but on some horses its like a darker blanket thrown over them, falling on the top surfaces of the horse. Think of a sooty buckskin. Sometimes it is all over evenly. Think of a dark chestnut or dark palomino. Since it is a separate gene it can occur with other genes, like the dun gene. Some experts say that if you don't have a light coat color it "can't" be dun. But a dun and a sooty gene cause a darker color, usually all over the horse. So if the horse has an eel stripe (a hard line dorsal) it is dun, regarless of coat color. The challenge is that the sooty gene also makes a dorsal, but it has fuzzy edges. When you have a horse that is so dark that you can't tell whether the dorsal is sharp or fuzzy you really can't say for sure that it is dun, but if it has other markings, like leg barring, ear barring or light hair inside the ears - it is likely dun. So a bay dun has a hard edged dorsal and a darker coat color.

[horses4ever]

Okay, thank you

[zhiaral]

I've also seen the standard dun/zebra dun referred to as a 'bay dun' as opposed to a 'red' or 'sorrel dun' and a 'grullo' or 'black dun'.


Edit - however, this is just from reading and listening to people, rather than confirmed knowledge of the matter.

[horses4ever]

okay. thank you. and same.

[sbutter]

Here are two pictures of a kiger boy at the adoption. I would have guessed 100% bay from a distance and was shocked when I got up close to see how huge his leg bars were and he had the dorsal. I wonder what would show up in the color coat test.

[gotkiger]

Ok so some of you have seen pictures of my colt Frodo. He has light legs bars a shoulder bar light inner ears and what appears to be a dorsal down his back. I did the dun test through UC Davis and it just came back as negative. Honestly I dont believe it. However the Dun test through them is not definitive. It just tests for some of the markers that they believe are involved with the dun gene.

Here are the pictures I sent in with his DNA. He looks bay at first but when you look again he has more than just brown hair.









Whatever color he is, he is beautiful and mine and that is all that matters.

[stormyranch]

Kevin's EMM mare. Listed as a bay?

[sbutter]

We have a number of bay TB foals/horses on our ranch right now that have the dorsal/countershading. Will Power is one of the mature horses that has his line still. Last year's Fame's Flame has kept hers after shedding her baby coat. The sire and dam of these horses do not have the countershading to my knowledge. However, I think Will Power is out of a grey mare. I have pictures of Will Power's back somewhere.

[fantasykiger]

gotkiger..Frodo sure has all the characteristics that say Dun doesn't he. I wonder if he is Sooty as his results came back negative for Dun.

[gotkiger]

I have no idea what he is, lol. But I talked to his sires owner and she said that she has had a number of foals out of that same wire and non dun mares that look like duns. She said they had all the characteristics associated with dun. He is a black bay but maybe there is something underneath that? I don't know.

[DianneC]

I kinds of lost faith in the test when they asked for pictures of the parents....

[gotkiger]

Yeah that kind of made it seem like it was their opinion. But if he stays all boy until he is three a d has proven himself worthy of a chance I might try to find Frodo a mon dun partner to see what he throws

[DianneC]

When you have sooty and dun they will often throw sooty duns just like they are, which doesn't really prove what you want.

[gotkiger]

Is there a way to prove that or if they just come out non sooty then they are dun?