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Post by barbhorses on Nov 26, 2011 22:27:13 GMT -5
I am appreciating the color. I love rich deep bays and jet black horses. I also (of course) love dun factor horses. While we are at it, a nice rich palomino does it for me too.
This discussion is about color, not on what you decide to call your horses. Yes, you are correct, my horse is not a Spanish Mustang and there are a lot of reasons why for that in temperament, genetics, history, and type. I also have SM friends. In fact, one of my best SM friends started off as being my most hated enemy on the boards. Now she calls me if I am sick or wants me to get my arse out to SD.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Nov 27, 2011 8:15:50 GMT -5
Lisa, would you bring over the picts from the high selling colt? That is a good example of a dun with sooty.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Nov 27, 2011 11:01:51 GMT -5
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Post by stormyranch on Nov 27, 2011 13:42:20 GMT -5
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Post by gotkiger on Nov 27, 2011 15:13:07 GMT -5
I am not normally one to step up and say something like this but I am sick and tired of this and since I was gone I am going to jump in now... you sent the pictures in without our permission or knowledge and that is offensive. You also carried on conversations about our horses with absolutely no knowledge of them.... I dont know if you realize it but you are truely offencive in what and how you say things. I may be really young and not know as much as half of the people on this forum but I do know that I would have kicked you off lond ago. You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine but seriously STOP BASHING THE KIGERS AND THEIR OWNERS!!!!!! Go find a Sulfer board and terrorize them.
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Post by stormyranch on Nov 27, 2011 15:49:18 GMT -5
Sarah, she already has and gotted kicked off those boards. LOL
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Nov 27, 2011 20:13:49 GMT -5
Due to the overwhelming requests to remove barbhorses, I have done so. This is not the first time (or second) over the years I have been asked but tried to give her a chance. I feel at this point she was keeping others from joining in and ruining good discussions. Not to mention the obvious vendetta against Kiger folks.
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Post by DianneC on Nov 27, 2011 23:33:06 GMT -5
You were more than tolerant Michelle. I think she is one of those people who just love to fight. Thank you.
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Post by gotkiger on Nov 28, 2011 11:26:25 GMT -5
While she had some good things to say she did have more negative things to say. You were more tolerant and patient then many would have been. Thank you.
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Post by duvers on Nov 28, 2011 13:04:27 GMT -5
Anyway, if you notice in the email that was sent back, words are used like most, usually, some and don't tend to. Not exactly solely conclusive. There is always room for variation. Just a follow up regarding Dr. Sponenberg's use of words like "most, usually, some, and tend to," this is the way a good scientist talks. In grad school, I learned that science builds slowly & methodically. We come up with a hypothesis & test it. When we report the results, we use language like "the results suggest that ..." and give a description of what we think the results mean. As other scientists come along & replicate the results & draw similar conclusions, scientists will be more likely to state the results as facts. It is frowned upon & the sign of a bad scientist to state things as conclusive fact that actually aren't completely understood. The learned people of the past used to "know" the world was flat. Anyway, not to bash Kimberlee too much, but it seems that her main downfall is to state that things are fact when it is simply theory, one possibble explanation, or a supposition. Then to argue that the theory, possible explanation, or supposition is the only possible truth. My .02. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. :-) |
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Post by DianneC on Nov 28, 2011 21:42:13 GMT -5
You nailed it on the head duvers. And that she continued to make those statements with the worst possible light on Kigers.
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Post by DianneC on Nov 28, 2011 21:57:26 GMT -5
Back to the issue at hand. I'm wondering if these horses like this stallion are sooty brown dun or grulla? I'm thinking brown dun plus sooty. In thinking about Tia and she carried a strong sooty gene but wasn't copper dun. It didn't show in her coat color - unlike copper duns, her coat color looked like a normal dun with more darkness in her face and maybe a bit of something in her coat, but most people would think she was a normal dun. I thought that she was bay with two dun genes plus sooty, that might explain why her coat wasn't copper dun - she had two dun genes. Why isn't this stallion some form of copper dun, maybe brown dun? Perhaps this stallion also has two dun genes but is brown dun plus sooty. The brown gene is like the bay gene, but doesn't lighten the coat. It would be interesting to have a horse like this tested.
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Post by spanishsagegrullas on Nov 28, 2011 22:19:10 GMT -5
Good evening, people. Since Kimberlee mentioned someone in the Kiger community that particularly does not like her, I wanted to dispel any rumors that she may have been talking about me, only because I have never met her, did not meet her in 2003, and she generally does not have enough impact on my life for me to be emailing about her. However, I am not particularly fond of her. I have found myself in positions where Kimberlee's stances of expertise and her statements about her horses or what she has accomplished, or her statements on the Sorraia horses and their history and characteristics, or her statements on Kigers in general have to be countered. I have tired of making these efforts of late, but have read the discussions here, always shaking my head. For your information that this is not the only place where Kimberlee has been called to task, she has made statedments on FB groups that have been patently false. When I have countered them, the threads have been removed. On Lynn Wysong's personal page, Sheri has discussed a distressing situation where Kimberlee and others have derailed an adoption of a rescue Sulphur horse. What Kimberlee professed was so outrageous that I could not stand it anymore and had to reply. Here is part of my reply: "Kimberlee Jones how DARE you say honesty and integrity are two things you hold highly . . . . You and your constant, unfounded, and unproven assaults on the Kigers are what has gotten you banned from two previous Kiger message boards, and only mildly tolerated on the current one. You seem to relish in causing disturbance and disagreement, and apparently in causing significant harm to people who have not harmed you. In my opinion, your actions are not one of a well-intentioned, honorable, honest and well adjusted individual, no matter how you defend them. There seems to be no positive benefit from any action you have ever taken with regards to horses as a whole, unless it benefits something specific for you personally. I am only sorry that it will be the horses, whether individuals or the Suphurs as a whole, who suffer from the wreckage you leave in your wake, complete with a bitter taste in people's mouths such that they are not willing to consider the good qualities of other similarly situated Sulphur horses." If you would like to read the complete thread, you can find it here: I have met Victoria, and have cared for her over a few days in 2001 when Sheri Wysong was selling her to Erin Grey. I also have seen Arista at a Erin's when she was due to foal, years ago, and she was no special color, I recall either a light dun (zebra dun I call it) or an apricot dun. Victoria is personally a very nice horse. As for sooty and dun, I also believe sooty can mask dun. I have a very very nice Kiger stud colt who at most times appears bay, however you can see a specific, hard edged dorsal stripe on his back, but only at certain times of the year in the right light. I have taken pictures of it. I intend to breed him to a buckskin Morgan mare that I have acquired in the hopes of demonstrating that he passes on the dun factor. One other point of clarification. I am not quite sure Dr. Sponenburg is up to date on his knowledge of the dun coloration. They do not have a dark head, that would be an indication of roan. What duns do have is a dark lower face mask, as we all can see on our horses. That being the darker nose area generally starting just below the eyes. One aspect of sootiness/countershading is an upper face mask; in other words the upper portion of the head, the area between the eyes and around the eyes, is darker than the lower. It has long been my theory that sooty/countershading combined with dun is what produces not only the neck and shoulder shading, but the cobwebbing on the forehead -- the upper face mask stippled by the dun gene. But those are just theories and I, too, am really looking for the test for dun when they find the gene and are not doing just "associated markers." Which, BTW, reminds me to let you know that one of the reasons that Lynne Gerard, the lady in Canada who has Sorraia mustangs which she breeds with her full Sorraia stud, may have results that say her horses are not dun is that UCDavis is finding erratic results on obviously dun marked Lusitanos and PREs, such that they are not officially offering the test on those horses. Why they think Kigers are any different, I do not know. I do know that one clearly grulla Kiger was tested as negative for the dun factor at that lab, so perhaps their testing is just leading to more thought about how the dun coloration occurs. So, just my long two cents. Enjoy your holidays, Diane |
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Nov 28, 2011 22:21:35 GMT -5
It would be interesting to do a study (when they perfect finding the dun gene) as to if the dun expresses differently if there is one or two genes. I still think the bay and dun can mutate to do funky things, especially when the sooty gene is on top of it all.
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