Marsh Tacky horses

[grullagirl]

LOL i agree with you dunbnwild, most cutting, reining, and pleasure QH's have such refined heads that you almost can't tell whether they are purebreds or not. Unfortunately I only think there are maybe a few lines left that i would feel comfortable with using that have been linebred and inbred. I think the most true to form line would have to be the Old Fred and Skipper W lines, they have been linebred for generations but thanks to their breeders keeping most of their stock the line wasn't distributed throughout the industry like so many others. Should we start another post for the Kigers and Riddles? I think that would be interesting to see what different opinions owners and breeders have on this matter.

[barbhorses]

Aug 17, 2011 10:37:33 GMT -5 dunbnwild said:

Aug 16, 2011 18:56:10 GMT -5 @barbhorses said:

Those horses actually have a gait that only they perform. I agree that they are most likely a Spanish breed, but in some individuals you can see Arabian and some pony mixed in as well. Being that there is no such thing as a pure Spanish horse, I am content in saying that they are mostly Spanish with some other breeds thrown in. I am unsure what their DNA says though. Would need to give Dr. Cothran a call to ask. I stand firmly on establishing a Spanish population requires genetic analysis confirming a dominant presence of Spanish markers and frequency, the majority of individuals showing old Iberian conformation, as well as establishing a logical history of the area and how those Spanish horses got to that location. Without all three of those components, then I am not comfortable in saying whether or not a breed is Spanish. So, for these guys, I will say that they most likely are Spanish by breed (going based off their looks), but I would give room for those other two components to say whether they are for sure.

You've made this point a few times, so I'm curious, why does it take all of these components for you to feel comfortable saying a group (or breed) of horses has Spanish characteristics or influences, yet all it takes is one dished face photo to be comfortable saying a group (or breed) of horses has Arabian characteristics or influences?

Any of what I am saying about the Tacky's is really questions. I haven't said anything about them that indicated a for sure opinion about their ancestry. The fact that a purebred Tacky exhibited a rather clear dished head obviously gives anyone a question to their heritage. I also have every doubt that a horse with a dished head is exhibiting inbreeding traits or we would see that with the severely inbreed Portuguese Sorraia. Instead, what we see are severely or moderately convex profiles. This clearly means that despite the severity of inbreeding, a concave profile does not indicate that a population is severely inbreed. It does tell me that the population does have Arabian influence.

[Michelle Clarke]

The Portuguese Sorraias as they stand today are not the originals. They were taken from local ranch horses and hand picked by Dr. Ruy d'Andrade as he remembered from his youth. What that means is that he picked the horses that were closest in his memory for the new breeding herd - so he could have very well picked the convex profiles. Not to mention that this horse is no longer "pure", as they were taken from ranch stock, which means they have other breeds in them at this point. They have been diluted. It will be interesting to see what they look like in 50 years.

ETA: Besides, when you consider inbreeding factors, what you see are traits that get extreme - like the dished face or even very convex profiles. Just look at the Veiga line - the stud farm itself has had no new blood for almost 140 years now and their heads are very convex - so the close breeding just accentuated a trait that was already there. Have you looked at Arab breeding farms lately? Some of those foals have heads like a sea horse.

Veiga horses:



Arabian foals:





2 year old filly:

[Michelle Clarke]

Can anyone post picts of the cutting horses with dished faces? It would be fun to see what differences we might be able to pick out as compared to the above Arabians.

I wonder then if you find an Arabian with a flat or convex profile if they are less Arabian and have another breed influence...??

[marci]

This has been a very interesting conversation to read. Everyone has a personal view for sure. Without genetic testing its all speculation to be truthful. No matter what animal we humans breed we will all claim our line is "the best or pure" when all it boils down to is health/temperment. You can have an animal with the best pedigree out there and it be dumb as a box of rocks. The pedigree doesnt make the animal "better than" the cross breed next door. My point being, why breed for a physical trait when all that matters is you create an animal that is healthy and can be worked with. Follow the laws of nature, may only the strong survive. If I were a gambling woman Id venture to say that most of whats being created today wouldnt survive without human intervention.

[marci]

I personaly have a Quarter Horse trained in cutting. She has a nice pedi but shes not the most beautiful mare Ive come across. What draws me to her is her will to work, her focus and her determination to get the job done. My girl is a smart mare, eager to please. I have plans in the near future to breed to a Kiger Stallion (hopefully one of Michelles ;D) to promote health, smarts and trainability in her foal...the pedi is just a piece of paper

[grullagirl]

I will try to post some pics of the cutting and reining horses i know of that have very fine almost dished facial features. On my computer i can't use photobucket due to it freezing up. Does anybody know of a good pic uploading site so i can post the pics for the board?

[sbutter]

Do you use Facebook? You can copy the image URL of the picture and then post it in here between the picture brackets. If you need any more explanation, I can help. You can also use webshots.

[grullagirl]

unfortunately i do not hav facebook, but will have one soon . I'll try webshots for know. I start schoool this week so it might take some time to put everything up