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Post by fantasykiger on Jul 11, 2011 0:50:59 GMT -5
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Jul 11, 2011 14:17:47 GMT -5
This would be Andi Harmon ( "Oregons Living Legends" book) who posted these shots. The BLM Facebook page also has some pictures taken by Tara and the corral pictures were taken by Patti on Saturday. I am amazed by the controversy that exists regarding gathers. It seems you are either against gathers and nice or for them and a rotten person. Andi and I have already been accused online of being everything but nice and the gather is not over. Please care about what happens, just get the facts as we are trying to do before you rush to judgement.
There were no animals struck by a helicopter. The temp the first day was in the 80's by afternoon but the gather was done before 10am. The second day we were chilly for much of the morning and again the gather finished by noon.
I felt mixed emotions while we watched, sorry to see them lose freedom, but hopeful that they will go to good homes and the breed will live on on captivity also. If you hear of an injury or a fatality, please check to see what happened before you lay blame.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jul 11, 2011 15:25:32 GMT -5
It is a hard thing that is for sure. I don't think any of us want to see them loose their freedom but the reality is nature is cruel. What may or may not happen at these roundups is most likely mild to the harsh world they really live in - we just don't see the day to day struggles they can have. They do need to be gathered to keep a viable population and in the end, protect the herds - no matter what romantic thoughts we have about life out in the wild.
I am glad there are folks like Andi and you who can get out there and see what really goes on.
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Post by fantasykiger on Jul 11, 2011 18:38:32 GMT -5
I should have forewarned you all the link did come from horsecity the largest horse board, you have to read thru' with a grain of salt and weed thru' those who post without the facts. The photos are however fabulous the video was great and I can never get enough pictures and info' on Kiger Mustangs.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Jul 11, 2011 21:34:15 GMT -5
Oh...I did not read through it all. Been there, done that with the "public". One reason I love the Board here so much!
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Jul 12, 2011 9:55:29 GMT -5
I want to give you some more information as it is already online on at least one other site and BLM has released the details if you go to their site. A horse with a badly broken foreleg was euthanized on day two of the gather. The leg was broken before the gather started! This is documented by us and by BLM. A foal was kicked in the shoulder in temporary holding which resulted in a punctured lung and death. The APHIS vet did a post mortem to determine cause. So it stands at one non-gather related death and one gather related death with 193 horses gathered. I hope Dianne Pinney is still on this board as she commented on Tuesday's Horse (funny place this one: I commented, someone took me to task about my comment and then closed the board so I could not reply). Dianne, the horses did more than trot, however the two days we observed we saw them move at a walk, a trot, and a lope all in the same approach to the trap. I also saw them take extra care with a very small foal. I don't want to argue with anyone, all I am trying to convey is that this is what we have for now- helicopter gathers. We went to see for ourselves so that we would know fact from fiction when the subject arises. I have no reason to lie. Personally, I would leave them all free if we could. To the best of my knowledge, they did not geld any stallions that were released, nor did they plan to PZP the mares. I respect Dianne's opinions any anyone elses also, and know that she is doing her part to preserve and promote the horses with her program and by serving on the committee. We have watched the family bands out there change from year to year and have hours of tape showing stallions with different mares each year. I have always wondered if that is due to the gate system on the HMAs rather than a natural occurrence.     |
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Post by spanishsagegrullas on Jul 12, 2011 15:02:25 GMT -5
Bobbe and all else -- As far as the Kiger and Riddle gathers go, here are my objections:
1. The Kiger HMA has been closed to cattle for two years. The forage is great. The horses look great and continue to be healthy. The range is healthy. It is not overpopulated with horses. I have not seen any documented proof that the horses were thin and starving over the winter, that they "knocked down fences" nor that they "got into town" (what town?) as has been stated. I highly doubt it.
2. Before the BLM determines whether horses are "excess" and need to be rounded up, they need to determine that the range cannot support them. Was that done here?
3. There was an Environmental Assessment that is supposed to address these issues, and more, circulated for public comment and consideration whether the action is necessary. I have not found anyone who received it or notice that it was sent out.
4. I only learned of the gather that was to happen on July 1 when District Manager Kenny McDaniel told me, at the June RAC meeting mid-June. Andi Harmon has stated on a blog at tuesdayshorse that she thinks I am not telling the truth in that. By the time I read that yesterday, the comments were closed because of complaints, so I asked to be allowed to address that.
5. Andi Harmon has said that the horses were not stressed by the gather and were barely at a trot. That is not the case.
6. Many people said there were not injuries or deaths. Finally when it was widely circulated, and confirmed by BLM that there were deaths, that was admitted by these people. I wonder if the "broken leg" stallion was a grulla with a white rear sock, because he was out there last fall, and if he can make it on his own out there over the winter, and he clearly was fat, why euthanize him? At least let him live his life out in the wild.
7. Geldings:
The EA says they were to put 8 geldings out with the released horses. They include this count in the low AML to which they are reducing Kiger HMA to. THe law says that the wild horses are supposed to be in a self-sustaining population. Doesn't anyone on this board see the obvious discrepancy between that, and putting geldings out, when their entire contribution will be to eat the forage, which is claimed ot be limitted and that is why they need to reduce the numbers so low?
Further, the BLM Oregon gather report actually said they were putting out 11 Geldings. I personally called Kenny McDaniel and told him that I thought that was a mistake, there was no reason for geldings, and that Kigers are always 100% adopted so even if the population increases, there is no real need for concern. Whether that had any effect or not, there was a subsequent decision to not release any geldings.
My personal opinion is that Kigers are at a critically low population, even before the gather, and that is borne out by the health issues you all have seen and discuss on this board. So what if the AMLs have been that low for 20 years? Does anyone know what went into setting those numbers so low? Does anyone know whether it was a purely scientifically evaluated number, or were their concessions to other interests that may not have wanted higher AMLs? Are we locked into mistakes and bad decisions made in the past just because "its always been that way" or "it was always done that way?"
For the sake of the Kigers and the rest of the US Wild Horses, I sure hope not.
Diane
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Jul 12, 2011 17:05:03 GMT -5
I'm glad you are are here Dianne. I have seen cattle on the Kiger and Riddle every year so I wondered if you mean certain pasture areas of the whole HMA? Matter of fact, they just moved cattlle out of either Swamp or Yank allotments just recently and we saw cows last Wednesday. The forage is good now, but it was stated that horses were out of the HMA last winter. I heard not in town but along Diamond Loop. I do not have first hand knowledge of that but unless we define "stress" very specifically we probable won't agree on this one. We were at two days of the Kiger gather and there was only one person there either day who might have had an opinion that the horses were stressed, the rest of us do not see it that way, but unless you saw what we saw I could see room to disagree, but not from a factual base. The crippled horse could barely walk at all and our telephoto got us a good enough look that we felt he had very limited range. Maybe he could have stood another winter, but a jusgement call was made. The person I feel might have seen it differently seemed ready to jump on anything the Catoors or BLM said and did. She is entitled to her opinions just as we are. I also read about geldings and PZP and my heart sank at the thought. We will continue to film and see if we can track how the bands re-form now. Some of the very same poeple who objected to the gather have said that Kigers should not be considered "treasured horses" and treated as all other herds. Gosh I hope not.
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dunbnwild
Yearling
Wild horses can drag me away :-)
Posts: 403
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Post by dunbnwild on Jul 13, 2011 10:03:56 GMT -5
These numbers are wayyyy too low- you can see in the pictures of the Riddle gather the effects of small herd size- they all look like they are closely related. Why wasn't there any warning of these plans and numbers?
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