Inheritance of striping

[Michelle Clarke]

Been kind of quiet, so I thought this might be a fun project and maybe something we can learn. I read once that in donkeys, the babies get the striping patterning from the dam. I have noticed that many of my purebred mares do seem to pass that along too and mostly my foals from non-dun mares do not follow much of a pattern from Charro.

Gringo seems to have thrown his leg stripe pattern onto his colt, Max - they go high up; from the non-dun mare. It is hard to tell yet on the filly out of the grulla mare because she has not shed out. I can see lots of stripes but not really tell the pattern yet.

I have also noticed that some of the foals that have more cobwebbing on their legs will develop more hard lined stripes as they get older - anyone else notice this? Sometimes not until they are three or so...

[gotkiger]

This is Dollie at about 3 years and her first cold Diego at 5.

To me he doesnt seem to have inherited much of his markings from Dollie. She had a super dark mask, and cobwebbing on her legs. but i wonder what the gray gene did to her coloring as well

[fantasykiger]

I will be back to post my results, this is very interesting and fun. I have to dig up some photos.

[barbhorses]

I think that some of Victoria's foals got her markings. Catarina will likely have cobwebbing, intense stripes on her legs, big shoulder markings, double striped ears, and a decently thick dorsal stripe just like her momma.

[barbhorses]

Found this today. EXTREMELY interesting and changes what we understand about what the Spaniards meant when they called a horse "overo". This is a PRE stallion bred in Spain that is a registered overo aka toasted chocolate dun.

www.millpark-andalusians.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=39

I believe that when the Spaniards meant a two colored horse that they called them a pintado. Apparently our understanding in America of what an overo is is NOT what the Spanish mean when they say overo!

[Michelle Clarke]

His pedigree is all greys...he is listed as an Overo (Paint) on his pedigree. You have to understand that these colors were not accepted to be registerable forever...only grey, bay and black. Grey became predominant because it hid other colors.

If you look through the website, many colors are incorrect. They have this stallion listed as Ee aa - so black, recessive red and no agouti. They also have (DD), I guess meaning homozygous for dun - which the Spanish horses cannot be tested and his parents are listed as grey, so that is only a guess by the owner.

None of his foals are dilute - so no cream. Many are bay (maybe the test was botched?). Many Iberian type foals that will grey are born with dun type markings that fade. JP once commented that all iberian horses are born with stripes. I've seen many Arabian foals also born with dun markings that grey out.

This stallion also has red based foals listed as red duns and they clearly are not. I did not look at all the foals, but the solid colored ones remind me of having the sooty gene to some extent.

If you look into a lot of the old Spanish books, Pinto, Pintado, Overo, Tobiano and Piebald are all described as having white body markings. A few months ago, we had some visiting vets here from Portugal and Brazil. They said in both countries that Gringos' color was Isabella - did not matter what base color he was, that is what he would be listed as on his pedigree. I don't think other countries obsess over color like we do!

[barbhorses]

Yes, and any pinto color back 500 years ago was considered foreign. The Spanish climate is not suitable for horses with pink skin (they burn easily. The Southern California climate is very similar to that of Spain's. This is the complaint of any person I know that owns a horse with pink skin. They have to constantly keep after them so that they do not burn either with sunscreen or masks) and the fact that the men hundreds of years ago considered the pinto or pie bald coloration to be foreign.

The stallion is certainly not greying out nor is he black. He looks very similar to that of a grulla horse (unless the mucked with his photos).

[DianneC]

Here is a better picture of him, you have to scroll dow to Mejicano XXIX, the ninth picture. Sure looks grulla to me.
www.millpark-andalusians.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=55
So if you are talking about the pattern of the stripes being like the dams, I guess I could agree. But the strength of the stripes no.

[grullagirl]

I believe the overo colored horses the spaniards were referring to in their logs was the Spanish Jennet. All that can be debateable since they also mentioned some horses with appy markings. One thing that confuses me about the spanish jennet is that it was said that both the paint and appy gene came from this breed.Has anybody else heard of this? I totally agree with J.P. on the spanish horses being born with stripes. I've also seen a lot of pictures of desert breed arab foals with stripes to. This is a great topic to discuss!

[Michelle Clarke]

I had an Iberian horse historian see pictures of Sycha (who is grullo/tobiano) and said she was the classic color of the spanish jennets. She did not mention any appy, but that's not to say they were not.

[sbutter]

Funny that this thread came up, because I have been thinking about this for the past month! I think the mare has a lot of influence on this, but it is still not a guarantee that the foal will have the same boldness. I know Ladyrose had at least one foal with her awesome markings (the foal pictures that I have seen). I also know Eli's two grullo geldings and Piper's dun mare "Chica" are all out of the same dam and have some major stripes going on. They all had different sires though. There is a kiger stallion that I have seen that has major stripes himself, but I have not seen the same intense stripes in the couple of foals of his that I have seen. I think Mojito has a little more striping going on compared to his dam Sedona, at least on his hocks.

[fantasykiger]

After going thru' my photos, Fantasy was the only horse with stripes as a youngster, you can see them faintly in her foal pic' Her dam of course was a bay, Fantasy is a dead ringer for her sire Big Indian. Same facial marking and everything.

Big Indian

Fantasy's foals
Wickee has none, just those short black points..of course I don't recall that Cowboy has leg bars he is pretty dark grulla.

Fernando the dun mule, did aquire a few leg stripes but nothing extreme. I am still sad he passed away.

Super full brother to Fernando of course has none.

[barbhorses]

Here is a less than flattering picture of Victoria, but is the only one I found where you can make out her stripes the best. This pic was taken in 2003.



2001 daughter Kalyani Yamini (half SM):


2005 daughter Doña Alabanza:


2008 son (half SM):


2011 filly (PUREBRED FINALLY!!):


Needless to say, the half Spanish Mustang foals and breeding her to a mixed type (unknown to me back when I chose him from the wild in 2003. I was looking for a "Sorraia type" horse he was it... Of course it wasn't until after that I actually did research that didn't involve people re-saying what Dr. d' Andrade had said and found out that the Sorraia deal was actually nonsense and that they are just as mixed of a breed as all breeds are) isn't exactly her most brilliant in production... My clear fav is the purebred filly Catarina

[grullagirl]

Here a picture of my grade kiger gelding Ruger.


I will post more later but i'm having trouble with photo bucket. Does anybody know of another good photo uploader?
Sorry this isn't the most flattering photo it was taken about a year ago when we weren't doing rounding exercises so his back is a little saggy.

[DianneC]

Sedona's leg stripes to compare with Mojito's. Chinook is so dark that his leg stripes are not visible, but they must be there to make such a difference.