Big Penicillin Shots

[dunbnwild]

My mare Catalina has something like bronchitis and I'm charged with the task of twice daily shots the size of caulking tubes... 30cc. I've been warned of the dangers and shown how to do it- these are IM shots (muscle). But some people are telling me I'm to do it different than the vet.

The vet has me insert the needle, ensure that I'm not in a vein, then push the entire 30cc in one go. (of course if I see blood, I'm to relocate and try again)

Others are telling me not to inject all 30 cc in one go- but to relocate a few times administering 5-10cc in each. This would mean poking her more times and risking hitting a vein more times.

Can those who've had lots of shot giving experience help me out? I really would rather do what my vet showed me, but also don't want to risk hurting her.

Also any special tricks to getting the needle in the butt? I tried but it was too firm and I didn't want to bend the needle (and she's a chub, so she must've been flexing).

Thanks so much! I did my first ever shot yesterday and first solo one this morning So I'm a little nervous about all this!

[stlkigers]

Cindy:

I'm sure Kristi and Randy have given TONS of shots, maybe email Kristi?

Angela

[dunbnwild]

Well, she started fighting me- and who could blame her- you should see these things! Since I'm by myself and don't have stocks (and putting her in the trailer for shots 2x daily was going to be a fight too)- I took her to my trainer's place- she's more skilled with the shots and has stocks and helpers, etc... plus she can watch her more easily for other changes in behavior. I still can't believe they sent me home to do all that having never given a shot before. Just happy she is feeling better!

[Michelle Clarke]

Put the needle in, pull back, make sure there is no blood. Administer 15cc slowly, take the needle out of the muscle but not the skin, move it slightly to one side, insert and administer again. Make sure the penn is warmed up and not cold - they take it better that way. You can also turn her neck toward you once the needle is in so the muscle loosens and it makes it easier. I have a vet here that places the needle on the neck and has me turn the horses head towards him so the horse pokes himself. Has always worked very well except it can be hard to do on your own.

I'm sorry you've got to do this - I know how difficult it is. I could never get butt shots after the first time, especially by myself. I just switch sides of the neck daily. Not optimum, but safer for all.

[barbhorses]

To get the needle in without surprising my own horse I make sure that she first is not in an excited or anxious state (if she is I just work her until she has gotten any energy out, etc), secondly when she is calm I make it a point to slap the muscle that I am injecting into a few times with the back of my hand and immediately after my last slap I plunge the needle in very quickly. She doesn't even flinch! The one thing to keep in mind with needles is that the slower you go the more painful it is.

I would do what Michelle has said, except in school they taught us that a max of 10cc per injection site (for a horse. It differs upon size of the animal). It is a good idea to just redirect instead of going and poking again in a different spot.

[DianneC]

Wow, I've only had to do it to one horse who was so sick we almost lost her. She was so sick at first that she didn't care, but as she got better it was harder. Do give probiotics a couple times a day too or she'll have the runs. For bronchitis the vet gave me SMZ (sulfamethazone) and which dissolves in a tiny bit of water and can be added to grain. Its cheap too.

[dunbeingwild]

I realize that the problem is over for this time, but my suggestion is to go to a pill type of antibiotic that can be melted and mixed with honey or applesauce and put on grain or squirted into the mouth like a wormer. Your Vet should be able to get them for you and though they are somewhat more expensive than shots they have much less side effects and you will have an easier time of it. Most of the ones that I use are sulfa based and have worked for EVH 1-4, Influenza and the dreaded mud fever.

[dunbeingwild]

I realize that the problem is over for this time, but my suggestion is to go to a pill type of antibiotic that can be melted and mixed with honey or applesauce and put on grain or squirted into the mouth like a wormer. Your Vet should be able to get them for you and though they are somewhat more expensive than shots they have much less side effects and you will have an easier time of it. Most of the ones that I use are sulfa based and have worked for EVH 1-4, Influenza and the dreaded mud fever.

[DianneC]

Hi Dunbeingwild,
Where in the NW are you? I'm north of Seattle. Not sure what mud fever is?
Thanks, Dianne

[dunbeingwild]

I am just a little north of Eugene, Oregon. Mud fever is has a lot of names depending on the area. It is usually on the legs and belly of horses who are outside in areas that get a lot of rain and that don't get their legs washed off enough. Though once it is in the ground you have to be extremely careful as it shows up quick. Boarded at a stable that one of the horses had it 3 years ago and have been fighting it every since during rain season. If someone else puts my horses up without washing the legs completely clean 2 days in a row they will have it. It is also a form a rain rot and is sometimes called scratches.

Signs are small chunks of hair come off on legs, swelling, lesions in bad cases and can go systemic. One of the horses in the barn went systemic last winter and they almost lost him.

[dunbeingwild]

About the maximum about to give in a single site. If the horse is still wild enough not to be easy about shots and you have to give them you can give in a single site at 25cc. But Oregon State Vet School recommends that you try to not give more than 12cc in a single site. The chance of causing an abcess is much larger the more you give in a single site. Though if you have to give 30cc twice a day for 5-7 days you are going to run out of good sites. One of my favorite sites is in the breast muscle. Even if there is a little swelling if won't keep a horse from eating like a neck site and is easier to put the needle into than the rump. I will say that sometimes I do use the rump and try to keep the shot site fairly low.