Sooooo....

[desperatehorsewife]

Saw someone make a comment on a photo of a Kiger on Facebook, said it looked just like her horse from Fox Creek, or something like that (CA/NV border.) Photographer said "Well, there are Kigers on Beaty's Butte, so maybe???"

I had to step in, said Kigers are on Kiger and Riddle...though the originals were found on BB and other similar horses brought in from other HMAs to develop the Kiger. But a dun horse with a Spanish look does not make it a Kiger.

I was told others in the know would debate that.

So...are y'all in the know?

[mystickiger]

"I was told others in the know would debate that."

I'm confused but that's not uncommon for me, LOL. Debate what? Kiger's on BB? Kiger's put onto other HMA's? or a dun horse with a spanish look does not make it a Kiger?

[desperatehorsewife]

LOL...that others would debate that Kigers were not on other HMAs, mainly Beaty's Butte.

[DianneC]

The original 27 horses came from Beaty's Butte and were put on the Kiger and Riddle HMAs. Kiger is a registered breed, current KMA and KHAR registry guidelines are that they have to be from Kiger or Riddle or out of registered stock and pass inspection. Current SMKR guidelines are that they have to trace back to Kiger or Riddle.
Over the years there were some, around 12, Spanish type dun horses from neighboring Oregon HMAs that were put in with the Kigers by the BLM. Some were put in for a few years then removed, but not all. There were also some Spanish type dun horses from other HMAs, including Nevada, accepted early on into the KMA registry until the book was closed, I forget the year...1992?

[prizmbluekigers]

A local version of the origin of Kigers says some of the BB horses were taken from the Burns corrals and put on Beattys Butte by BLM before Ron Harding came onto the scene and discovered them. In this version, the horses were located in the general area of Burns, but not on BB.
Anyone else heard this version? Someone who had been involved for longer than we have? We came across this info while we were researching the documentary and have a verbal account with details of a few of the horses allegedly used to seed the original herd and they were sure not Spanish (well maybe indirectly related). Please folks, I am not arguing or trying to start a hostile discussion on this board, but I have had this version of the story in my head for quite some time am trying to be 100% certain of our content of the film so I wondered how wide spread this version might be and since someone opened the door I decided not to wait any longer to ask. We had another interview set with Ron for the Spring so I will not get to ask him about this. If you have any anecdotal info that you would like to share or have been wondering if your info is correct, please let me know. We are still reseraching background and will do so until next fall so I am getting pretty good at fact finding and the history of Burns. I would love some more clues so I can keep digging. I have not yet tried to confirm this with BLM, but will do so in the next few weeks. We ARE going to make a winter trip to the Kiger HMA soon.

[Michelle Clarke]

Thanks for sharing that...I personally have not heard this version (being involved with the "old timers" of the breed for 13 years now). However, knowing the politics and the garbage going on, nothing would surprise me. I've talked to locals I've met throughout the years and one told me they used to add QH studs out there from their own ranch; to gather foals from; another (who's maiden name was Kiger - and her family has been up there forever), said they were primative and isolated. Now, to me it is debatable as to exaclty where and what herd they may have been speaking about 40+ years ago.

I think what plays a lot into all of this is legend...what someone may have flippent said back in the day becomes the accepted truth at some point.

For example...I was told that in the "original" herd, there were five mares that had the dun and tobiano markings. When it was decided that white was not going to be allowed in the registry, these mares were not included; but some of the old timers bought them to use for "half" Kigers. I have never had this confirmed or denied and the more I know, the more I think it was a bunch of bunk.

Honestly, what I have learned over the last 8 years being involved in these type of debates is that history is open to interpretation and debate. Even written word cannot be taken literally and this applies to any venue of history. It simply cannot be taken as truth to the umpth degree.

I understand though, how people may view it as extremely important and I have no issue with folks debating it or digging up and sharing info.

I have choosen to take the Kigers for what they are now. Even the way the herds are now being managed with gate cuts, etc., the herd will continue to change and evolve and it is basically being (if not already from history) influenced by man - one way or the other.

The problem with this is everyone had their own ideas of what the breed should be or not be. This is a problem in most breeds though, so it is nothing new. I will keep choosing the Kigers I prefer and hoping to see the wild herds flourish. Just because I prefer a certain look, does not mean that I don't like the other types or wish they were all similar. If that were the case, then most likely many Kiger enthusiasts would not be invovled in the breed.

[mystickiger]

Well said, Michelle.

Prismbluekigers, don't forget about the History Timeline posts on page 2 under the Kigers on the HMA section of this board.

Karen

[prizmbluekigers]

I agree, well said MIchelle and I agree about taking them for what they are but I have always been curious about their origins. Along with the info about how the herd originated, I have several independent versions of the story that indicate Morgan blood and even Welch. I think that is how we sometimes see a Kiger and seem to see the influerce of different breeds. I have always thought that I could see a Morgan influence in some Kigers and some of the heads I have seem could remind someone of a Welch pony. I was exposed to both these breeds years ago so maybe I "see" them reflected in our Kigers. From the guesses about Kiger or not we all seem to have seen similarities to other breeds. For me, the final line is that I love my horses for what they are and never thought the breed was more than a mix of some characteristics and genes with no clear origin.
Having said that MIchelle have you hear anything about who will be allowed to offer input for gate cuts next year now that Ron is gone?

[fantasykiger]

I could not have said it better Michelle, just think if I had my way there would be alot more grey The perfect horse is the one in my pasture and I am sure most folks feel that way.
Looking back is interesting, I am very thankful to prizmbluekigers to taking on this task with compiling the facts and folklore putting it all out there for the public in the form of a documentary. I am much more excited about looking forward, as I am seeing so many more Kiger Mustangs undersaddle and the 2011 adoption.

[desperatehorsewife]

Hello? Are there Kigers on other HMAs? Is a dun horse that looks like a Kiger, a Kiger?

[mystickiger]

"Is a dun horse that looks like a Kiger, a Kiger?" NO!!! Atleast that's my answer to the question. With the exception of a few "found" horses that happened years ago, I believe even the two oldest Kiger registries, and most people involved with the breed, will unequivically agree that Kigers must trace lineage back to the Kiger/Riddle HMA. While there are beautiful duns in other HMA areas that may look like Kigers they are not by breed definition. They are not by BLM definition either.

"Are there Kigers on other HMAs?" That's a loaded question. Kigers because of dun factor mustangs? IMHO, no as stated above. But, have Kigers been introduced to other HMAs during the past 5 years to expand the dun factor and create more marketable horses for the BLM? Hmmm, I have not researched this so I can not say for certain. But it has been said by atleast one BLM employee that is the case. Heresay? Who knows or really cares at this point.

Karen

[desperatehorsewife]

Thank you, Karen. Was hoping for a straight forward answer rather than 'found' talk and history I agree, but you do bring up an interesting point of Kigers released into other HMAs. I know that Ramona bought a 25 year old buckskin earlier this year who was removed as a yearling. Would be interesting to find out just how many, if any, horses are still being displaced.