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Post by Michelle Clarke on Mar 18, 2008 10:20:30 GMT -5
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Post by DianneC on Mar 19, 2008 11:41:57 GMT -5
Her logic leaves a lot to be desired. I do not believe that all horses have dun markings under their coats. I think that there were ancient horses, the Tarpan and the Przewalski's Horse that were dun, but not all ancient horses were dun. The Exmoor Pony and the Arab were not dun. The Great Horse of northern Europe is another that wasn't dun. Celtic legends talk a lot about the huge black horses of the north, the European "Great Horse". There were also greys and occasional white horses. Here is a link to read more: home.twcny.rr.com/topazowl/celthors.htmI have to believe that there were once small dun horses, Tarpan types like the Sorraia, fairly widespread over eastern and southern Europe. The Dulmen horse is another example from Germany. There are written records of them back to the 13th century. Here is a photo:  Rather than the complex theory offered in this article I think it is simpler to imagine what likely has happened down through time. Breeding for height, weight, pulling power, speed etc. was practiced. Some of the smaller dun horses were bred, perhaps to larger stallions. It was common in the Middle Ages for stallion owners to travel with their stud and breed the mares in each new area as they traveled. Perhaps the dun offspring were not as valuable because they were “primitive”. After generations the dun gene would have been bred out or mutated and, if it is a cluster of genes, portions of it lost. Some areas, where pockets of the Tarpan-type remained, would have had more dun horses. Invasions, like the Arabs into Spain, would explain some Arabs that have dun factor markings today. So if we see some remnants of dun markings today in "non-dun horses" I am not surprised. |
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Post by lindaf on Mar 19, 2008 13:01:03 GMT -5
Dianne, that is a breathtaking photograph. I'm going to look up the Dumen horse as I was unawaare of the breed.
Won't the testing for the dun factor that is now available be able to prove or disprove this hypothesis?
With Norwegian Fjords, all of the horse are duns of one variety or the other. It was once asumed that they were c;ose relatives of the Tarpan or Przewalski's Horse, but DNA analysis shows that is not true.
Thanks for the link to the Great Horses. Last month I gave a program on Celtic horses to our Celtic Heritage Society.
Linda
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Mar 19, 2008 20:37:11 GMT -5
Okay, that is MY field of dreams.....what a cool picture!
Dianne, I agree. Some holes in that theory. Having been around Arabs for years, I never saw one with primative markings as a foal. Now, I have seen them on all the Luso/Andy foals and on the Paso babies too. When JP saw the foals here with stripes, he was like - no big deal, every lusitano foal he ever saw had stripes as foals, but went away when they shed out....and he ran a 600 horse breeding farm in Mexico for years.
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Post by DianneC on Mar 20, 2008 0:22:17 GMT -5
Sorry to not have the credits for the photo. I just kept it for myself. That looks like Cedar's head in the left foreground, looks like it a lot. I could never figure out where that head came from, but it sure looks the same. Now these horses have never been to Oregon that I know of, but it would be interesting to see if there is any similarity in their DNA. I'll see if I can find where this picture came from. Sorry, I see I typo-ed the name. Its Dulmen not Dumen. For some reason the search for Duelmen wild horses seems to bring up the most references. There is video on Youtube at www.youtube.com/watch?v=A32WjRK-u3U of them bringing the herd into the stadium. Unfortunately the young men capture the yearlings by hand (full grown is only 12 - 13 hands). Even with this predatory method, the horses are well known for being great with kids and easy to train. |
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Post by juslyn on Mar 20, 2008 11:47:39 GMT -5
Michelle, look at my photos of my Arab colt for primitive markings.   |
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Post by DianneC on Mar 21, 2008 14:02:15 GMT -5
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Post by lindaf on Mar 21, 2008 17:23:50 GMT -5
Juslyn,
I can't evaluate his dun markings, but he's surely is CUTE! Love that curly little tail and cute butt.
Linda F
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