Kiger quality

[barbhorses]

Diane... that report is about genetic VARIATION, not similarity! Did you not read that it keeps saying variation and not similarity? I will post the Kiger genetic report as soon as I get it which is about their genetic similarity with other breeds and where they place in the breed groups.

For the fourth or fifth time, no one is slamming the Kiger for being Spanish influenced just like many other American horse breeds are. Last I checked, a Spanish influenced horse breed is considered the best (by many) and is the most numerous of all horse breeds in the world aka the Quarter Horse. Which the Quarter Horse and the Kiger share the same Spanish markers (just like they do with the Morgan and other fantastic horse breeds). There is absolutely NO SHAME in that!

Once again, the opinions that I posted are of Dr. Cothran whom is considered an expert in his field and is well respected. So, if you and your friend think my facts are misconstrued then please CALL Dr. Cothran or email him or send him a snail mail with the information that I provided for him. It isn't like I am saying he is saying one thing and then hiding any way to get a hold of him so that you can't double check my information. Rather the opposite, I gave every available channel to get a hold of him and am inviting everyone to give him a call and ask him yourself about the information that I gave. Clearly, I am absolutely certain and even double checked for the billionth time today for what I posted here and was once again reassured that I have my information correct. I was even given information that I did not know in that the Kiger shares the same Spanish markers that all Spanish influenced American breeds possess ie QH, Morgan, etc. Please call him so that you can stop pretending like I am lying to you.

Like the old saying says, don't shoot the messenger.

[Brandy Deck]

I am located in an area where, to my knowledge, there are almost NO Kigers. There certainly would not be enough to support a breed show. I have a similar problem with my apps. I have begun registering my apps (ones that qualify) with the CRHA. I can now show them at local open shows against other breeds, and earn points. Maybe the Kiger registry(s) could look at doing something similar. It is certainly a good way to give the breed exposure.

[sbutter]

I agree Brandy. It is hard to put on a kiger show that is supposed to draw any active kiger owner, but distance does become the main issue. Unless there is some way to offset the costs or make the trip more worth while for people that live far away, it will be hard to be able to see all the kigers in one place.

I guess my main curiosity was what people are doing outside of registries. Are there a large percentage of people that are actively working with and breeding their kigers even if they are not working with a registry? Or are all the active breeders/showers decreasing both inside and outside the registries? If people are fed up with registries, are they doing something outside of registries to give kigers a good foundation? Where does the fate of the kiger lie, within registries or outside registries? I feel like the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction for most people. Before, there seemed to be too many chiefs and not enough Indians, but now, no one really wants to follow a chief, so everyone goes off and does their own thing until circumstances bring them together.

[fantasykiger]

I may have worded my response wrong my breed of choice is the Kiger Mustang so I consider them my horses I wasn't taking it as a personal attack or defending myself of my own personal horses. When someone once again brings up the question of the quality of the Kiger Mustang I am sorry if I sigh, the older I get the less complicated I like to make my life and my horses as well.
Why the need to complicate things with Kiger Mustangs, badly bred horses that do not perform will not sell well, nicely bred horses will. It depends on the discipline your leaning towards on the conformation you will lean towards with your Kiger Mustang and your breeding should you choose to breed. It is always the Kiger mind that everyone goes back to that makes them stand out from any other Mustang or domestic bred horse. This trait even passes on to the crossbreds more often then not which is why folks choose to cross them in my opinion. Maybe I am wrong.
Should you choose to pigeon hole the Kiger Mustang into one standard one color you are limiting the breed. Though I doubt you would ever get enough folks in my lifetime to agree who would qualify to set that standard. Again I could be wrong.

[barbhorses]

Tiffany,

Personally, I think that anyone that is breeding good minded, HEALTHY horses (no HYPP, no horses whose feet are so small that they are sore all the time and whose feet are so weak that they need shoes even though they are just standing around being a pasture ornament, etc. etc.) with good conformation should never be criticized! I think that people put too much stock in a pedigree in modern domestic breeds and forget about breeding healthy horses just to make a buck. A gal I know has such an unhealthy halter bred QH stallion who is N/H and she still breeds him because he looks like Arnold Swarzenager (sp?) on steriods. He has a very odd personality in that he HATES it when other horses look at him. Even when he is breeding a mare. He will freak out and strike out if the mare looks at him. Just odd... on top of that the horse has such weak feet that they break apart on soft ground and he needs shoes even though he isn't ridden. His legs look very fine boned for a horse that is packing so much weight (about 1500 I think when he isn't even in show condition!). Then, she goes and breeds him to this TB mare that is about 17HH! YEA!! Let's breed for a foal that will be so huge on top of really weak feet and legs! On top of that, let's HOPE the foal wont get HYPP! Fantastic idea! *face to palm*

It is nice when you have your equine dentist tell you that it is nice to see a horse whose mouth is genetically sound. Then your farrier tells you the same about your horse's feet. Go for a trail ride and not even think about the rocks on the ground and then become confused when the people that are riding their QH's or other breeds that were bred into the ground all for the sake of money avoid the rocks like they are covered in poison because their horse's feet will fall apart if they walk on them.

People put too much on pedigree. Pedigrees are useful, but it is stupid to pay more for a horse who is prone to diseases and weak limbs and feet because of their pedigree and then spit on the horse who is extremely resilient and healthy just because they don't have a pedigree or their pedigree isn't very long. If you get the right horse for your sport, you can do anything. Karen O' Conner proved that you don't need a huge horse to compete in eventing and many people have used uncommon hard as nails breeds and competed successfully against horses that are knowingly bred that have health issues that are passed on.

Ok, stepping off my soap box lol.

Perhaps if you had a rated show that would draw people in?

[fantasykiger]

I have to agree with you there, breed for quality not quanity with a purpose for the horse in mind and really you can't go wrong. With all the new members joining this board and new owners aquiring Kiger Mustangs and pleased as punch with their new horses, this breed will surely continue on, though it may always be on a small scale.

[fantasykiger]

sbutter..as far as outside owners most I am familiar with that own and ride Kiger Mustangs. They use them everyday and really have close bonds with them. They are trail horses, ranch horses and general use horses. Not the type of people or horses that fuss over registration papers or are even curious about registries. They are of course not breeders.

[spanishsagegrullas]

I guess my main curiosity was what people are doing outside of registries. Are there a large percentage of people that are actively working with and breeding their kigers even if they are not working with a registry? Or are all the active breeders/showers decreasing both inside and outside the registries? If people are fed up with registries, are they doing something outside of registries to give kigers a good foundation? Where does the fate of the kiger lie, within registries or outside registries?

Sarah, I think a lot of people out there with breeding Kigers are operating without regard to what the registries are doing, and many I believe are not even registering their progeny.

To give you an idea of what is out there, on some other thread there was discussion of number of Kiger stallions, shown or unshown, quality or not. As I was watering my horses, off the top of my head, I came up with 40 Kiger stallions that I know about, ones that are still alive. That does not include the ones that are registered in SMKR, nor the ones you see advertised on dreamhorse, etc, for sale or for free. Just people I know or know about over the years. So I would guess there are probably twice that many.

Diane P.
Spanish Sage Ranch

[DianneC]

Really? I don't know a lot of the KMA people or people back East, but I can only come up with maybe 20.

[sbutter]

Wow, that is a pretty big number. I wonder how many of them are still stallions or if they are even breeding? After looking at the stallion thread, more stallions have been gelded.

I don't doubt that kigers will still be around in later years, because they have so much to offer. I just know as time moves on, it has a tendency to blur the lines more, unless some forethought is in place to keep things clear cut. I don't know if it is a really appropriate comparison, but more discussions have gone on as to whether the holocaust actually occurred. As the remaining survivors reach the end of their lifespan, people are taking advantage of the lack of firsthand eyewitness accounts. We have thankfully compiled enough evidence to to support that the atrocious act actually occurred, but its a shame that people will actually try to pull that. So, on a much smaller scale, I see people taking advantage of the lack of first hand documentation that can be verified by different "witnesses." If the proof that we have is not in a format that will be irrefutable in the next 100 years, there are many challenges ahead that face the kiger.

[spanishsagegrullas]

Sarah, they are all still intact, except maybe three or four that I have not heard about being bred or heard of foals from in a few years. But that notwithstanding, all 40 are either currently breeding, available for breeding, or hoped to start breeding. Heck, there are about 10 studs associated with people who have posted on this board in the past week or two....LOL!

Diane P
Spanish Sage Ranch

[kimk]

Wow. 40 does seem to be an awfully large number. Diane could you post those 40 here? I know I own 3 of them, one from Kiger HMA one from Riddle HMA and one captive bred which is the only male foal I've produced that I did not geld. And I've had a lot of boy babies.
I have my first extreme trail challenge with Fuego this coming Memorial Day weekend.... that is how I've decided to get him "out there" this year. Do you only have Bullet at this time? let's see.... I count 4 uncut boys from Dianne C,s breeding program..... so that's 8 between the 3 of us.
still debating on gelding Kody....won't be breeding any of them this year as it stands right now, but I will be riding them.

[DianneC]

Good counting there Kim, Blue Skies, Mojito, Bravo and Tyee. Mojito is with Sarah and Blue is still with me - taking my time deciding about Blue until he matures more and is under saddle. Did you find a home for your rescue stallion?

[kimk]

Yes Dianne I did. he's been gone for a year. He is not being bred and I do believe the new owners plan to geld him.

[spanishsagegrullas]

Kim, you are too funny, and predicitable. I was just thinking yesterday that you will probably corner me at the KMA meeting in July and ask me to name all forty. I am not going to do that on this board. If you want to know, you can call me. Rest assured, I do know how to count, and all but maybe three of those studs have been discussed or mentioned on this board, as well as one or two that I forgot to include.

Diane P.