Speckanzie EsPanYol???

[kigerfan]

Being somewhat of a sucker for palominos, I fancy Aventureiro do Vouga. Something about his face. He looks very kindly, intelligent and willing

[DianneC]

Who is Lakota? Very nice, Kiger right?
The link with the dark bay stallion above had some interesting video on correct Spanish gaits and common faults. www.equiandalusian.com/inicio.cfm
Many Kigers, including my own dear Cedar and Lark, have these little quick trots that they use most of the time - smooth but not the standard for Spanish. Kind of a dink, dink, dink. Chinny, however, has this huge stride that can cover an arena in no time. He gets the knee action higher with a pause at the top when excited or showing off for a mare but its more of a flat type than Spanish.
I know a lot of people love the Lusitano head, but the bay Andalusian and Lakota are the types I love.

[fantasykiger]

Ok if I had my wish and my pick of the horses after reviewing them Zenon captured my eye with his big head and straighter profile then I read his trainers opinion and I was sold on him.

[spanishsagegrullas]

I confused as to what you are looking for here, and why?

The Spanish horse is generally considered to be the PRE/Andalusian, sometimes people call the Pasos, Criollos, Marchadoras Spanish.

The Portuguese horse is generally considered to be the Lusitano.

Iberian means anything derived from the Iberian peninsula, which is both Spain and Portugal.

Are you just talking about PRE/Andalusian conformation? Do you include the Pasos, Criollos, Marchadoras, in this "Espanol?"

Finally, wondering why it is all that relevant to pick apart these conformational traits? If you are looking to discern what is ideal for a Kiger, well, it is a blend of all of these, but primarily preserved because it was considered to be the remnants of a primitive type of horse. Thus, it really should be compared to the more primitive horses of the Iberian peninsula such as the Sorraias and the horses which still currently run in the wilds where the Sorraia horses that D'Andrade located are found.

Remember, when the wild horses that spread about the North American continent arrived, the horses that we consider Lusitanos, Andalusians, even Pasos, Criollos, and Marchadoras of todat, did not exist. They are all results of continued breeding -- as specific breeds -- over the past 400 years. Some of that breeding included purposeful infusion of draft, Arabian, and English Thoroughbred blood. So, while we may see traits in the Kiger that are like the traits in these horses, and they all stemmed from the same "raw materials, " so to speak, there will be significant differences, of course.

Somewhere on this board, it was stated that Ron Harding thought Kigers derived from Vaquero horses. That is only one of his thoughts. He also ponders whether they actually were never extinct on the north american continent, and that the horses of southeastern oregon are descendants of those. There is some evidence for that theory. There is also some considerable evidence that the Kiger and other horses in the Pacific Northwest are direct descendants of the Conquistadors horses, not brought up by vaqueros, but already here in the hands of the Indian tribes; history has recorded them possessing hundreds of horses by the time Lewis and Clark came through, some horses having Spanish brands.

Just to expand your minds a bit.

Diane P.
Spanish Sage Ranch

[Michelle Clarke]

thanks for your thoughts Diane. I am just trying to get an idea of what folks consider a Spanish horse. Everyone has their own thoughts on the subject and it is educational to see everyone's point of view.

We did get off on the Lusitano tangent, but oh well! Our threads on this board seem to take some interesting turns and I find it a lot of fun. It is very relavent to pick apart conformation traits, especially if we are studying breed standards. It is especially educational to learn about spanish/iberian type conformation if folks are going to breed!

The history and theory is both facinating and educational. I belive that we, as Kiger owners, breeders and admirers, are trying to move into an era of promoting these horses and cherishing them for what they are today. It is very clear that we could spend years speculating on who,what, where and why, but in the end it does not get us any further .

I know you know from the Iberian group that there are plenty of people that consider the Lusitano "spanish" and the same as the Andalusian, that is another argument that rivals the seperate camps in the Kigers!

I agree with you - there is a diffence between the Andy, the Luso and the Kigers (and sorraia, paso, etc)....we just haven't gotten that far yet!!!!

[nightangel]

lwood92 said:

nightangel said:

One word. Lakota. ;D

Any picts Michelle? Lynn?

Here are some pictures of Lakota. He is one of the best movers!

It was love at first sight I swear. ;D

[lwood92]

Yes, Lakota is a Kiger. Michelle bought him from a local guy who is moving out of the country.

[lindaf]

He also ponders whether they actually were never extinct on the north american continent, and that the horses of southeastern oregon are descendants of those. There is some evidence for that theory.

Diane , can you point me in the direction to when I can get more information on this theory? I'd love to read about it.

Thanks,
Linda F

[spanishsagegrullas]

Hi Linda F,

I can sure point you in the right direction, with a few caveats of sorts. When I heard that Ron thought this, I hate to admit I was thinking perhaps it was fanciful. Then on PBS I watched a program that was exactly on that topic. The film was produced (and here's where the caveat comes in) by the Fund for Animals. I know some people think they are a wacko extremist group, but the video was good, had scientific data to back up what they said, and one can buy it from them. From that video, it could lead you to more research.

The only reason I did not purchase it immediately is because as the Wild Horse and Burro Rep for the Southeastern Oregon Resources Advisory Council to the USFS and BLM, I was looking for information to change these people's minds about the value of maintaining wild horses on the federal lands. While I think the information and the video useful and credible, I decided that in such a conservative group (ranchers, loggers, miners, etc) that they would dismiss the information I offered them out of hand based on the source. Instead, I presented a talk on the value of the herds in Southeastern Oregon, and had the meeting switched to Burns at the Kiger adoption time, so they could see for themselves how a well-done, promoted wild herd could bring in as far as interest and money.

I will do an internet search and if I find anything more specific, I will let you know.

Diane P.

[DianneC]

I ran across some video of Donner, aka Spirit. I'll vote for best Kiger head for him.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcuEXpEuVxI

[kigerfan]

Yessss Diane, I ran across that a couple weeks ago and enjoyed it. It was also interesting to hear that song in another language. I do agree he's got a beautiful face but Bravo is no slouch either in the beautiful face department.

[kigerfan]

Have you seen this one? It has some wild horse footage at the front, then photos of Donner and then some video of Donner. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpLdKaBNESQ&NR=1

[fantasykiger]

I also admire Steens Kiger as well, in my opinion is a prime example of a Foundation Kiger Mustang Stallion.