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Post by nrly on Feb 16, 2012 1:11:22 GMT -5
We gave all our horse's their booster shot's of 4 in 1, and Nova who is Jim's BLM Mustang, has a really stiff neck, slight snotty (which is white in color) nose. she is eating good, but just off her normal self a bit. Is this the norm. none of the other horse's had this reaction to their shot's. She tends not to handle shots well. and so I hesitate to vaccinate her, in the end I do, but people have said "she's a mustang and do not need it." I disagree. but I worry about her reactions.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Feb 16, 2012 8:20:37 GMT -5
Well...you know I am going to tell you I have not vaccinated anyone for anything in over 17 years. Vacs should only be given to healthy horses firstly - any allergies, stomach issues, etc means unhealthy. If your horse is Insulin resistant (which is common in the mustangs and especially Kigers) - they are not considered healthy. IR is like type 2 diabetes and vaccinations irritate symptoms. If your horse has a cresty neck, fat pockets over the tail head and sacrum, puffy orbs over the eyes - there is a problem with their diet and they are not healthy.
It is not a normal reaction but a common one. Her snots is coming from the other horses boosters - I finally got my vet to admit that Rhino gives them Rhino. He said it does not protect the horses that gets the shot but it sheds the virus and gives it to the other horses around them low grade but some horses will actually get ill because of a compromised immune system.
Horses are not allowed to be vaccinated at our facility or come in if they have had shots in the last 21 days. We actually have a quarantine area for those that do...
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Post by truemaloy on Feb 16, 2012 9:30:01 GMT -5
We dont vaccinate here, either. We dont show or compete or pasture our horses anywhere other than at home. I have heard of too many side effects or unwanted effects. Both of my mustangs were given full vacs by the blm, but that will most likely be their last.
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Post by nrly on Feb 16, 2012 15:02:34 GMT -5
we do go out of our area with them. I worry about this. I hate what they do to nova, and she is the only one and she is not fat, cresty neck,nor any of the things you described. and it also seems more and more problems are arising. Look at that Show in Utah, now an arena in California has a break out. seems like we can be d**n if we don't and d**n if we do.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Feb 16, 2012 15:42:19 GMT -5
We DO travel and show - no problems. The whole key is keeping the immune system supported and healthy - then they can fight off whatever is presented. Most things that are passed along are easily treatable. Most illnesses will not take hold of a healthy being. period.
Healthy immune system starts with a healthy gut (85% of the immune system surrounds the gut). Processed feeds, sugary treats and synthetic supplements tear down immunity. It is a vicious cycle.
More problems are cropping up because of the crap in processed feeds that the feed companies are pushing on people. What you put into your horse is what you get out. Very simple.
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Post by nrly on Feb 17, 2012 0:40:55 GMT -5
yes that is so true, and all i give are hay, red wheat bran, and strategy.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Feb 17, 2012 8:30:08 GMT -5
Strategy is a processed feed. Here are the ingredients: Wheat middlings, ground soybean hulls, cane molasses, ground corn, wheat flour, dehydrated alfalfa meal, soybean oil, dehulled soybean meal, clacium carbonate, salt, lignin sulfonate, L-lysine, calcium propionate, DL-methionine, vitamin E supplement, iron oxide, anise flavor, fenugreek flavor, choline chloride, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, calcium iodate, magnesium oxide, cobalt carbonate, vitamin D3 supplement, ferrous carbonate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite. Crude Protein 14.0% Crude Fat 6.0% Crude Fiber max 12.5% Calcium max 1.30% Calcium min 1.0% Phosphorous min 0.60% Copper min 80.0 ppm Selenium min 0.6 ppm Zinc min 280.0 ppm Vitamin A min 3000 iu/lb >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wheat middlings are a cheap byproduct of the wheat kernel used for wheat bran. If you are adding wheat bran on top of this feed, that shows this is the first ingredients; you are unbalancing your rations - specifically phosphorus, which what middlings and wheat bran are high in. Needs to be balanced with more calcium. Really, there should be no need for you to add even more in. Plus, later in the ingredient list, is shows wheat flour... Soy is not good for horses, no way no how. Soy is high in estrogenic properties - not to mention how GMO'd it is. My mares can't handle any soy or they begin to very nasty and have bad heat cycles. I've also known geldings to get riggy on it. There are three different sources of soy in this product - the soy oil is the only source of fat in this list. Plus it is immune suppressing: www.uckeleequine.com/news/15/?show=1Corn...well, corn turns to sugar in the blood stream; not to mention myotoxin issues. Corn is not a good source of horse food. Molasses - I don't think I need to mention the issues there. I hardly imagine the vit/min supplements are from natural sources...most calcium supplements (for people!) are made from ground lime and NOT usable in the body. My guess is that the source for horse feed is also not usable to them. The base protein level is way too high (especially if you are feeding any alfalfa) and the fat content is too low - should be at least 8%. Plus it does not list the protein or fat as minimum or maximum - so your amounts are varying anyway. Here is an interesting, short, read: www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/purina-ingredient-tags-453286.htmlMy point of this is - know what you are feeding. These Spanish horses can't take all this sugar and processed crap. By continually feeding these type of feeds, the gut is working really hard to eliminate and process all of this low quality filler and it is stressing the immune system and making an unhealthy horse. Add the vaccinations on top of that and they are in a downward spiral. This information is especially important to those who are breeding. This is the future of our breed and we can genetically begin to produce animals who will be born with diseases like Cushings and IR. |
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Post by nrly on Feb 18, 2012 0:01:59 GMT -5
well I am not going to buy Strategy any longer. My vet recommended it. and i just trusted him, and so I bought and have been giving to them for years. not any longer.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Feb 18, 2012 8:25:05 GMT -5
Good choice! Vets do not have a lot of knowledge on nutrition unless they have specifically studied it. Mostly they get a week of it - usually sponsored and taught by (you guessed it) a feed company. Which Purina is good at getting their foot in the door that way. FYI - Purina was run out of every country except here; they used to use ground up pig/cow bones for their "calcium source". They were bought out by Cargill (Nutrena); not sure if they still use the Purina name but at least the formulas have been changed. Not that Nutrena is much better.
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Feb 20, 2012 14:39:16 GMT -5
Michelle,
Would you give rabies vaccine if it was showing up in your county? I agree with you on shots altho I have been blasted by folks who think I am taking chances. I watch the reports on West Nile, rabies, etc for our county and state and if an epicemic breaks out I can always change my mind if necessary.
Our horses have been "stay at home" but this year Fit and I are planning on attending some small local shows and two ACTHA rides so he will be out and about and then returning home to the fillies who are one and three. I actually started thinking about calling the vet for shots (we cannot give rabies legally in Oregon) but had not come to a decision so this discussion is timely. Thanks!
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Feb 20, 2012 16:28:24 GMT -5
Rabies is a tough one...it is one of the shots that has the most potential for damage and side effects. In dogs it causes fear of water (I often think in horses it can show up as fear of tarps, which can look like water) and some other rage issues. There is information now that it is being passed on to the next generation of puppies (rabies vacinosis). There is a homeopathic nosode for it but when I talked to my classic homeopathic vet in regards to this, he said he would only use it as a last resort, since you are essentially giving infected tissue particles. I could find out more for you if you like.
Honestly, I'm not sure what I would do. I guess I would hope if faced with that by then there would be a better alternative. I had bought a colt years ago when I only had one boy and he had some kind of seizure and ran into our pipe fencing and cracked his skull. It was a scary and heart wrenching situation. I did remove his head and send it to the health department for testing but it was negative.
So, to answer your question, I would probably do more research and use the nosode if it came down to it.
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Feb 20, 2012 17:44:32 GMT -5
Thanks, I saw rabies as a kid and it is scary and I would go the natural way if needed. As to all the other shots, I am not actually stabling Fit anywhere new, we will haul in and out the same day. I for sure will not stable him at the Burns Fairgrounds for the ACTHA ride. We will go out that morning and if we stay out there to film, I wil take him to the HMA with us. If there is a hint of amything contagious going around we won't even risk taking him to the HMA and spreading germs. That is if I don't lose my nerve. Thanks!
Tiffany, come to Burns and ride!!!
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