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Post by prizmbluekigers on Apr 6, 2011 14:37:20 GMT -5
My trainer suggested that I use training forks on Fit for now so that he can't get his head/nose up in the air to avoid the bit. I am sure the adjustment was correct; I am using a D-ring snaffle and an Aussie saddle. When I rode yesterday in the round pen, I got attitude.
I feel that until Fit responds better to rein directions that the forks interfer with turning him. It seems that the forks try to keep his head sort of centered and do not allow hiim to turn his head and have his body follow. In his turns he was sticky, somewhat reluctant and finally when we came to one stop in the pen, he didn't want to move. When he is resistant or unhappy with some aspect of what we are doing, he gathers himself up, tenses up and feels as though his next move will be in a random burst of energy. It seemed as though he didn't understand what we were doing and was reacting rather than trying. I am not worried about a major blow up, but am not sure what else to try except to remove the forks. I almost think he does better in a side pull or bosal, but he accepts the bit without complaint or fuss.
I also get conflicting advice. Bosal or halter and lead rope, then snaffle, or snaffle and then bosal. Please share anything that might help. The last thing I want to do is mess this up. Thanks!!
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Apr 6, 2011 20:53:21 GMT -5
Snaffle bit - single or double jointed, smooth and not very thick. Snaffle means no shanks (sorry, some folks have different ideas of what they are). Sidepull is great too, but eventually you'll have to deal with the bit again, so might as well take care of it now.
Best way to get a high head down is lateral lateral lateral. Inside leg - inside rein and move diagonally until the head begins to come down. Make sure that you release as soon as he starts to put his head down. At first, he may not drop his head while he is working on figuring out his feet but biomechanically, a horses head and neck are for balance. When you put the inside leg forward and under the body mass (toward the mid line) the abdominals come up, the back rounds, the shoulder stands up (with help of the inside rein at first) then the head comes down and in for balance.
One of the best exercises EVER!
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Post by mystickiger on Apr 7, 2011 6:49:32 GMT -5
From your description of gathering himself and tensing up, are you sure there's not a pain issue, possibly teeth or saddle? Ruling out pain is the first step for a horse that is above the bit. Like Michelle said, lateral work along the diagonal is a great exercise. Just remember to support with the outside leg and rein and most important - forward, forward, forward. The last thing you want is to allow him to lead with the outside shoulder. As far as the training fork, I'm not a big fan. Finding the cause of his avoidance: pain, tension, or balance, is best. Once he can relax, his head will follow.
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Post by fantasykiger on Apr 7, 2011 14:05:52 GMT -5
It is a guessing game first remove the forks. I too do not like to use gadgets to train horses. If you feel secure enough in riding him in a halter and lead rope give it a go and see if you get the same reaction if you don't it is possible the bit was bothering him either his teeth hurt or you aren't quick enough with your release. I find Fantasy starts to pull on me and avoid the bit if in her opinion or frankly I need a reminder to release that rein when she does what I ask. Fantasy was trained to work off a loose rein, she to will become tense when confused by me and what I am asking. I have be REAL consistant, or she'll kick me to the curb if I become all together to annoying...LOL
Another thing could very well be he is just plain testing you if you don't want to mess with head set and his avoidance while under saddle worried he may unseat you whilst pitching a fit ...ground drive him. What you do on the ground will translate to the saddle if repeated enough times. Ground driving would also be good test to see if it is a saddle issue. If he does well with ground driving in a bit with the saddle on, yet still becomes difficult once you are mounted, then the weight of the rider is adding pressure somewhere along his back or interfering with his shoulders.
Most of all be secure in your seat and certian of what your asking of him and it will all come together. That was the HARDEST thing I had to acccomplish getting back in the saddle with Fantasy, what a feeling it is to be there again. I still get the jitters now and again but mostly, it feels good to be in charge.
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Apr 7, 2011 16:39:38 GMT -5
Thanks! My first consideration is trainer error. His equipment checks out, and he doesn't fidgit with a bit. It just popped up when the forks did. I think he was telling me the forks offer him too small a turning radius now and the tense gathered thing he does IS indicative of a little attitude. When he is confused or unwilling he gets tense. The saddle has not been in a wreck and I have been using it since last fall when I brought him back from the trainer. We will go back to no forks and a bridle to test the theory and if I still get attitude, it is time to see if it is teeth. The vet checked them a few months ago and said no worries. Ground driving is a good idea also and we have been doing that to teach him to pull things, but I drive him in a halter and lines. I try to be very clear in what I ask, but as I am still learning there is room for error.
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Post by gotkiger on Apr 7, 2011 16:47:05 GMT -5
How old is he? My mare was giving me soem problems last year when she was 12. I noticed something funky in her mouth so I took her to the vet. They looked in her mouth and said everything looked good for a six year old and that she was just starting to get her canines in... i was a little confused and corrected the vet and told her that my mare was 12 not 6. The vet was insistent that she was indeed 6 not 12 so i went back to my truck and got out her paperwork and pictures and showed the vet that indeed she was 12 not 6. Canines come in around 5-6 years old and can make them a little fussy with their faces. But as my mare proved, not only can mares get them but they can come in rather late as well.
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Post by DianneC on Apr 7, 2011 20:30:11 GMT -5
When my horses have had bit problems they've gapped their mouths and let me know about it. I do love the Korsteel three piece dog bone snaffle. Seems like some Kigers trouble with regular snaffles.
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Apr 8, 2011 8:55:21 GMT -5
So we will do a dental check again to be 100% sure it is not a physical issue. Dianne, what do you think makes the difference in the Korsteel bit for your horses? His current D-ring is a Korsteel, first one I bought and I like it. Could it be the roller giving them something to do with their mouths? I considered a bit with a roller. What does anyone think about a shank snaffle as opposed to non- shank for training? I found a bit that allows you to use it as a shank snaffle or connect to d-rings. With shanks what will that do to his head set and carriage? Sorry, I do not want a horse that drags his nose on the ground. He just may be a bosal horse and I won't show him in English classes. He is not a nose skyward horse or a head tosser so I will omit the forks now. A chiropractic check in order too, just to be sure. I do notice he is a little stiffer flexing one way than the other.
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Post by Michelle Clarke on Apr 8, 2011 13:51:19 GMT -5
Shanks are for an advanced horse that clearly understands lateral bending and flexions. Shanks are for vertical flexion only and if the horse is not in physical shape to carry that frame (or educated), then more damage is done than good at that point. They will compensate in many ways, mainly dropping their back and getting behind the bit or fighting it plus not working through from the hindend.
Doing lateral flexions in a shanked bit causes the horse to lock and twist at the poll (and the first two vertabrae) opening up the door for many problems yet to come. It also restricts blood flow to the brain, causing a horse to be unfocused, tense and spooky. You can't teach turning correctly or fix body parts in a way that makes sense to the horse until they learn the basics with lateral pressure in their mouth.
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Post by prizmbluekigers on Apr 8, 2011 16:48:21 GMT -5
That makes sense Michelle and I have a very strong feeling that what happened was that he objected to being asked to move in an uncomfortable way and he was trying to tell me that. No more training forks and we are going back to a bitless situation for a while until he is vetted. I hate to lose riding time. He is not ready for a "set" headset and carriage yet and we ride with light contact, no collection yet. I am more interested in forward movement and fluidity now. Besides, he is known to have a stubborn streak from time to time when he does not get his own way.
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