Ruger getting gelded tomorrow.

[stacy]

You are so right, Michele. I have had nothing else on my mind. Looking back I can see where I have been negligent in his training...like you said, having problems in getting him to move his feet and not seeing other signs. I have NEVER forgotten that I am dealing not only with a wild stallion, but one that has been lead stud with a band of mares. I have some experience with stallions, but not riding experience. I have let my guard down because we have done so many miles. He is very respectful of my space, and it takes very little to move him away from me. In this last incident, he was in my space the entire time-due to terrain. And we were both frustrated with our lack of progress. Am I an amatuer owner? Probably-but how many people have EXPERIENCE with this kind of training...taking a 7 year old wild stallion and riding him the way I have. I have taken him to two trainers-for the experience for both of us, and I have talked to another on the phone. I have tried to fill in any gaps I might have created and have asked the experience of others to help me see if I had missed any 'gaps'.
As far as the testosterone for endurance-before I adopted him I talked to our equine vet friend that has vetted at international endurance events. We talked about the testosterone. Would it help, etc. I have ridden many miles with a friend and her stallion. There is no doubt the testosterone has made this horse a success. Ruger isn't the type of horse that stays with the pack, he lets the other horses get ahead, or he will leave them behind-even mares. It is very hard for me to ride with others, because he has no interest in staying with the other horses. I haven't pushed the issue, because I love that in him. I definetly can see how the testosterone can help. His recoveries and abilities are amazing. But even so, he is still lazy. It isn't helping him or me with a possible endurance career.
After the first time he tried to mount me, I told myself that if he EVER tried anything like that again, I HAD to geld him. No questions, no pondering it...it would be a done deal.
Michelle, I sure wish you lived closer, you are a wealth of information. I enjoyed your website. Thanks again everyone for the info and advice.

[kigercat]

You may want to talk to trainers that have extensive experiences with mustangs directly. They don't always have the same response as domestics...
But you will still have to find a way to correct the behavior after gelding so might want to pick some brains...You might be able to find someone in the area also just watching who the Extreme Mustang Makeover folks are.
www.extrememustangmakeover.com/trainerapp/trainers/lookup/Oregon
Kim will correct me if I'm wrong but I think Tim Delsman adopted and trained a stallion early in the KMA days...Kiger Hombre?
Erin Grey is in OR and has worked with Kigers and Sulphers...all genders and ages. Owned Sulphers Chance for a while.
Jackie Sigloh has a very well mannered riding stud Kiger Conquistador...he was conceived in the wild so not gentled as an adult but she knows stallion behavior.

There was a gal at the adoption - name escapes me - was in a lot of the demos with her young kids all on mustangs, lives just a ways north of Burns. I'm pretty sure she was participated in one of the EMM...ah found it..
Kitty Lauman www.laumantraining.com/

Anyway...maybe one of them would help with ideas to get the dominance fixed...or even do a weekend session with you?

Tossing out ideas =)

[Michelle Clarke]

Stacy, I applaud you for all the great work you've done with Ruger. I give you lots of credit, that's for sure. He is such a special horse and I really look forward to your reports on your adventures with him. Thanks for your kind words, I sure don't know it all but I enjoy sharing my experiences to maybe help someone along the way.

[sbutter]

Sorry to hear about the situation, but think you are making a good choice. I'd love to see more of his babies, but living a happy life is far more important. I have heard of similar stories like this before and they all ended in gelding. I am kind of curious if behavior like this is genetic in some way or if it is just strictly learned. Either way I am glad you are not giving up on him and are actively seeking a solution. I really look forward to hearing news from you and am very glad you have joined the ranks of kiger ownership

[stacy]

Ruger was gelded Monday. He is doing very well. I took him out for a short ride today (vet's directions), he did very well, didn't want to turn around to go home-also didn't want to trot-I can't blame him. One thing I want to make clear about his behavior, it wasn't aggression. No ears back, no charging, no teeth bared. It was the behavior I saw between him and the Arab in the pasture. It was dangerous, it probably was him displaying dominance, and definately worthy of him getting gelded, but it wasn't aggression. Since the day I brought this horse home, he has been a very confident horse. I can see how he had a band of mares, he shows very little aggression, but is extremely confident and shows very little fear. He has probably been the dominant horse in his world for at least a couple of years. That confidence is interesting to work with. I love it! And I don't want to lose it, but as a herd stallion, he never looked for that "confident leader" that most RFDT horse trainers say that all horses look for. He WAS that confident leader-why would he need that in me? I tried to keep that spirit in him and not 'break' him without having to geld him. It almost worked. I wonder if the behavior is both learned and genetic. I would guess that he probably came from a fairly dominant mare with similar traits. He probably got to learn from her then built his confidence with taking care of his own band. Can you imagine how his life was? At seven, he probably thought he had life figured out...then along comes the helicopter.
I am so intrigued by seeing how these older kiger studs are adjusting to domesticity. Each has their own quirks and way about them that we work with or around. I am enthralled with the Kigers. They are what everyone says they are...intelligent, sensitive, horses that form strong bonds with their owners. Why would they? We take these horses away from everything they know and are comfortable with and they are able to adapt to a completely different way of thinking. This is AMAZING to me that they can do this, especially the older ones. Says a lot about the breed.

[lindad]

This last post needs to be saved. Beautiful. You nailed it!

[stormyranch]

I agree LInda! Very well said Stacy.