Very Kigerish or Spanish looking Quarter Horses

[sbutter]

This will be fun to jump into, since I have tons of pictures of kigers from different events/ places. The one shot above of Cedar (I see her head behind) is actually Prairie?

Here is a shot of some kiger butts in comparison to the QH pictures.










The chestnut with the blaze is a mustang but not kiger.

[Michelle Clarke]

Dianne....talk to me about the wedge shaped head. Have you noticed this in any other breeds? This is a subject I have been comtemplating on for a few months now.

[dunbnwild]

Nov 30, 2010 4:20:05 GMT -5 grullagirl said:

To me personally quarter horses have gotten so refined in the face and neck that they almost look like half arabs to me nowadays. I've actually heard of Ladies Smokey Dude he's one of the only grullo performance sires right now in the AQHA. I think probably the biggest difference that I see between the kigers and quarter horses is temperment. To me personally the kigers and the spanish horses are so much more willing to learn than the QH's. I have to say though combining those two breeds makes some pretty nice horses.

It's interesting you said this-- while watching the AQHA World events- Cow Sorting and Cutting--but mostly in Cow Sorting, I kept thinking, wow, are these full bloods? They all look arab! My friend was convinced they were at least half-arabs, and I kept thinking, but they can't be- this is AQHA world?!?!

[grullagirl]

I know right, as a lover of the old bulldog type of quarter horse I can just not get over this. I was actually reading a article in equus magazine on skull shape, and what do you know the quarter horse skull was dished just like an arabs. In fact the QH skull was more dished than the Arab skull. Now not only are the cow horses getting tiny dished heads they also seem to be getting hotter in temperment everyday.

[angelsdream]

I agree with the smaller heads on the qh's. That's one thing alot of people look for when buying or breeding qh's around here..they want small heads, thin necks and big butts!! Not to mention the heavy muscling. I know quarter horses had and will have there roles in the cattle working world and I have seen some quarter horses that were pretty amazing when it comes to working cows and reading them, which is what they are bred for - BUT like Michelle mentioned in another post, they are not very agile due to all the heavy muscles, then you add the smaller leg bones and they sure wont hold up to all the work when they start them at 2 years old (way too young)...just a mess that the quarter horse world has gotten themselves into with the over breeding and not breeding for quality, just breeding on papers and bloodlines. BUT again, there are some really nice quality quarter horses out there, Im not at all bashing the breed - they are a good versatile horse for sure and I have owned some good ones, if anything, Im bashing more of the breeders out there not breeding for quality but for money. It's not the horses fault....

[barbhorses]

Wedge shaped heads are common on most breeds. Even Dr. Bennett in her book called The Conquerors named that head style as modern (and obviously therefore common). Watching Man Tracker right now and his horse has a wedge shaped head.

On QH, not all of them are bunchy muscles or with the typical apple shaped butt nor do all have the baby doll more Araby style head. Here is a very good example of a purebred QH that is nothing like the horses in the link that Jackie provided (horse that is first pictured):
www.freewebs.com/mariahquarterhorses/forsale.htm

Quarter Horse gelding. zebra dun
sophorses.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/where-is-my-perfect-partner/quarter-horse-gelding/

Quarter Horse gelding. black
www.brooksquarterhorses.com/horse.asp?id=361

Quarter Horses
www.bigenoughranch.com/quarter_horse_page.htm

I have always thought that Kigers look like an older style Morgans (save their hips). I thought that the zebra dun and grulla Morgans listed on this KMA page were Kigers until I bothered to read the descriptions!
www.kigermustangs.org/reg/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=15

[Michelle Clarke]

Dec 1, 2010 13:12:33 GMT -5 @barbhorses said:

I have always thought that Kigers look like an older style Morgans (save their hips). I thought that the zebra dun and grulla Morgans listed on this KMA page were Kigers until I bothered to read the descriptions!
www.kigermustangs.org/reg/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=15

Really?? They don't look like Kigers to me. I think some of the Kigers tend to have a cobby looking head while they are maturing. They seem to get short and fat for awhile, then they thin out and get longer by the time they are five/six years old. Maybe that is what you are noticing?

[barbhorses]

I don't think Kigers look like purebred foundation Morgans, but they can resemble each other (obviously, not all foundation Morgans and Kigers look the same. I once talked to a gal that was working for a company that was from Oregon and she said that her Kiger was a bull dog style and didn't look like a typical Kiger). The QH gelding sophorses.wordpress.com/2009/05/0....-horse-gelding/ has a Kiger look to him.

I think that quality Kigers appear to be more of a mix of types of Morgan, QH, etc. I am talking bone structure. Some if the picture was taken at the right angle reminds me of an Andalusian. Well, one more gave me that impression with this specific photo of her:


I don't think that she looks exactly like an Andalusian, but her head style in this photo reminds me of one. In other photos her head looks completely different and some compliment this photo.

One of my more fav. stallions in the Kigers is Bolero. His dam put a hip on him that Sundance didn't have. I think that Bolero is the better of both his sire and his dam. I think it is a great feeling for his breeder to know that she got exactly what you hope for in breeding animals! I saw Sundance in person back in 2003, so I know that his lack of a hip wasn't just photos.

[Michelle Clarke]

Interesting in regards to the skull shape. Does the skull begin to dish when people are breeding for smaller heads? Or does it when there is a high amount of inbreeding? When I picked up my two QH mares that are Waggoner bred and very in/linebred, I noticed dished faces and bug eyes on some...also many white striped faces.

In fact, a filly out of one of these mares and by Charro has a dished face - looks half arab (but only in the head at a certain angle).

[barbhorses]

Michelle, Ora looks like she was born with a dished face and carried it into adulthood. It is very slight, but it is still there.



Perhaps the Arab in the QH was matched up with the Arab influence in the Kiger and that is why that filly has more of a dish in the head?

[fantasykiger]

One thing my Kigers have in common though they be half kigers is big heads. You don't notice it so much looking at them, they seem average and fit well with their build. It is not until you try and fit an average size horse halter and it won't buckle on them you realize ..dang that is a big
head. Fantasy however was born with a very dished face, which soon straightened out and she had to grow into. When I have asked folks they have commented they mostly resemble the Andalusian. Cleo' with her large size has been guessed as Appendix, but I think that is beacause she is all legs and head, they think there is TB there.
Neither of them resembles my foundation Lippitt Morgan other then being slighter in the hind quarters then say a QH. You would not mistake her for a Kiger even with her dorsal stripe.

[sbutter]

I don't really see the Morgan/ kiger similarity on the one website, but I do have an interesting thought that I am sure someone else has probably pondered at some point or another.

Here is the thought. I know Arabs can have a strong influence on anything they are crossed with. I have not seen an Arab cross that didn’t have some obvious Arab characteristic. There was some hype about the Friesian/ Arab cross in our neck of the woods, but the few that I have seen still looked very much Arab with very little Friesian. I am also curious of another option. What if a dished face, etc is an “easy” mutation? How did the Arab get it in the first place and why does it seem soooo hard to eliminate? Are there any horses out there that have little or no Arab influence that are also not being bred by man to hold to a specific standard? I am curious as to the result of a type of horse with no Arab influence that can bred with no limiting factors. Would a dished head come in eventually? So to summarize, is a dished head, etc .100% Arab or is it a likely or "easy" mutation?

[barbhorses]

Here is an Arab/Sulphur cross filly. IMO if someone bought her and made up the sire to be a CS then I think that the HOA would register her. She certainly doesn't look like a purebred Spanish type Sulphur, but I also think that people would have a hard time guessing that her sire was a purebred (and was linebred!) black Arabian.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO6-WrQ2bNY

There is also a Friesian/Arab cross at the barn I am at and it looks like a nice mix. The Arab gave the horse a lighter frame, but you would probably guess she was a Friesian/Andalusian cross.

[DianneC]

Michelle, the Dulmen horses have as close a head as I have found to the Cedar shaped head. I'll post a photo tonight.

[Michelle Clarke]

barbhorses...you're right, Ora certainly does have a slight dish to her face and there were times in her growth that is was more pronounced. Funny because neither her sire or dam had one - nor does any of her full siblings (she has three full brothers) or half siblings out of the same mare. I can't think of any of Charros' other foals having the dished look, except for some of the ones that have 25% arab in them, although one (Chach) has absolutally no arabian charactoristics and actually looks most like an old Andalusian throw back most of the time. His head always tended to be a little coarse looking.